YDI makes some nice products..... as long as you have them in a temp
controlled room... Their not certified to be out in the same temp's as the
SB stuff is.

Space is very very valuable... so is power usage...  In most of my POP's I
have just enough room left in the NEMA boxes to shove the power cables into
it...

Figure it up.. 5 to 6 power supply's very easy.. DC Injectors for the
amps... the radio... power strip.. and a switch.  That stuff doesn't sound
very big, but it all adds up very quickly as I'm sure most of you know.

Even if the unit was 6"x5"x1" I highly doubt that I would have room w/o
installing another box.  In some locations I was lucky to get away with the
size of the box that is installed.


But then you see where I'm going... why install another piece of equipment
when the current equipment should handle it?

Now the ppoe, hotspot, ntp, etc, etc, etc... you don't need to run that on
the AP.  All of that stuff forwards.  NTP should be setup on a multicast
setup.  That's the way I have most of my WAN's setup.  Works great, eats up
about 25 bytes/sec on avg.

A firewall.. it would be nice for some SIMPLE ACL access... but then that's
already on the unit.  You can setup which interface can be used to config
the unit.. wireless or ethernet..

Don't forget.. DHCP forwarding...   Go grab a Cisco book at your local book
store or order one online.  the VoIP... nope.. VoIP is nothing more than
H.232 (or H.323, too tired to remember right now) UDP/IP packets...   It's
just like streaming audio... your routers don't have to be able to encode
MP3 music for people to listen to streaming stations do they?
(www.shoutcast.com)

I'm building my own routers right now... Just because I can't find anything
that supports BGP except something like a Cisco 6509 with two sup cards.  I
am not going to spend $75k for something the size of a small fridge to try
to put it into a box at the bottom of some tower.

They are totally solid state with LARGE heat sinks on them...  I'm looking
at a few different water cooling systems right now...

But, there's no reason to install a router for 2 or 3 customers... unless
it's already integrated into the AP...

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 0:16
To: Shawn Mitchell
Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Here I come from ETSI land


There are valid reasons to do bridging in many cases. Besides it's not
very hard to get a router in place.

Small networks bridging don't hurt. Large network (20 or more systems)
do NOT bridge but ROUTE.. If you not seen Mikrotik it's a great
product. For very little money you can get a EXTREMELY powerful router
solution. On small networks simply just bridge to save on cost on
larger network put in a router at the right places.

I sell a ThinRouter with Mikrotik on it. For $365. It's a 533Mhz unit,
128MB ram, 64MB IDE Flash media, 2 ethernet interfaces.

Mikrotik is capable to do routing, policy routing, bridging, rip 1& 2,
ospf, bgp. Can be a wireless AP, pppoe server, hotspot server, ntp
time server, firewall, dhcp-server, bandwidth manager, voip
gatekeeper/gateway/client, bandwidth tests server. And probably a few
more things that I forgot to mention.

If you would make the AP a router you would have to trade out a lot of
features and capabilities or end up spending a LARGE chunk of money on
each AP. I would rather have a cheap AP that I can use on ALL installs
even the one where I might only have 2-3 clients and allow ME to
choose what router I have behind the unit so I can get FULL control of
the network. For example if you want to do hotspot authentication or
pppoe server authentication heck even dhcp if the AP is the router IT
must be the pppoe server/dhcp server or support or support proxying.

So no thanks just give me a bridging AP then I will build the network
myself and route where I need routing and provide the services I need
at the RIGHT place with the "RIGHT" equipment.

http://www.fament.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=73
For a direct link to our FEN ThinRouter.

Best regards,
 Eje Gustafsson                       mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
The Family Entertainment Network      http://www.fament.com
Phone : 620-231-7777                  Fax   : 620-231-4066
Mikrotik OEM - Online Store http://www.fament.com/catalog
            - Your Full Time Professionals -

Saturday, July 12, 2003, 9:16:13 PM, you wrote:

SM> btw.. one quick rant that's been irritating me (sorry, I've been out in
the
SM> sun all this week trying to fix sb stuff... I've got a N I C E sun
burn...
SM> I'm trying to stay calm)

SM> Don't take this the wrong way..   You guys are great with wireless...
but
SM> you suck with IP networks.  20 years ago bridging a network was the only
way
SM> to do it when you had protocols like DECnet, IPX/SPX, and every other
type
SM> of out dated system (by today's standards).

SM> Cisco has it right.. heck, even Sony has it right...   TCP/IP is a
ROUTED
SM> protocol...  IPX/SPX has to be a BRIDGED protocol... NetBEUI, Netbios,
etc,
SM> etc, etc have to be a bridged protocol...

SM> I'm very tired of seeing ARP's from one side of the network end up on
the
SM> other side.  80% of the trouble shooting you have to do on wireless
networks
SM> will go away, you'll be able to see where the problem is with a simple
SM> traceroute...

SM> What I'm getting at... get out of just doing Layer 2.. look at the OSI
model
SM> and step up to the next step.  LOOK AT LAYER 3!!!!!  When you give
something
SM> an IP address.. it's not the "box", "server", "airbridge", whatever that
SM> your giving the IP address to.. it's suppose to be the interface that
you
SM> give the ip address to.

SM> So you give the RF interface 192.168.1.24 and the Ethernet interface
SM> 192.168.0.24.  Ok, you can still have giving the box only one IP
address,
SM> but make the interface that doesn't get the IP address an
SM> alias/clone/whatever of the interface that does get the ip address.

SM> If you supported routing... you wouldn't have to care how many MAC
addresses
SM> are behind the APP, or the AB.  The AP would never see the MAC's from
behind
SM> the AB.  Look at the DOCIS standards.

SM> Remember.... routing = better throughput, better reliability, not having
to
SM> worry about bridged "loops", packet storms, etc, etc, etc, etc...

SM> Bridging = asking for trouble, worrying about loops, not being able to
see
SM> anything between you router and CPE.

SM> Does everyone keep in mind that old rule... remember that your not
suppose
SM> to have more than x number of switches between two nodes... otherwise
you
SM> scream for trouble...

SM> You can go ahead and flame me if you want... I'm tired of having
headache's
SM> of trying to find out where problems are on a BRIDGED network, and
trying to
SM> figure out how to setup some type of routing and not have to worry about
SM> accidentally creating a bridged loop.



SM> -----Original Message-----
SM> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Summers
SM> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 16:05
SM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Here I come from ETSI land



SM> Are there any data sheets or any material to read about some
SM> of the details that will be in Nexus?

SM> Kevin Summers
SM> KISTech Internet Services Inc.
SM> www.kistech.com

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nish Park
>> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 11:06 AM
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Here I come from ETSI land
>>
>>
>> With the current radio the range can not be lowered below 11.5dB.
>> For our new hardware platform Nexus due to be released in Q4 it will be
>> possible to do this.
>>
>> Nish

--
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