YES!! Here in UK (I might mean Europe generally) amps are illegal (thats not strictly true but EIRP>+20bdm (100mW) in this band is), so standard APs etc with modest gain aerials are the norm here for all the reasons mentioned below and others which have been mentioned on this list.
In the normal AP scenario, whats the use of an extra 10db (and thats all it is) from the radio if the clients are still doing low o/p power? Without wishing to offend anyone, the stereo-typical cartoon character screaming from a soap-box and not bothering to listen to replies springs to mind - at least his is bigger !. An extra bit of gain on the aerial would at least make for a slightly more reciprocal path, with the potential bonus of directivity which you can't get from amps. In many cases this one way comms may well be contributing to the extra traffic and poor performance some people are noticing when putting more users on. Messages can get out but replies are missed/retried - and then the outgoing message tries again etc. Recipe: add more users for disaster. Of course you won't necessarily see all this extra traffic at the point you are monitoring (your noc / tower etc) - it could be much worse on remote links without you noticing it. This could manifest itself as low throughput too - and I remember at least one posting here recommending high power amp on AP to overcome throughput probs ..... Bi-amps might be useful to overcome feeder losses, but as this is not a problem with sB kit (thats why we use it right ?). There is no doubt in my mind that amps are a waste of money. Contrary to the sledgehammer approach, the oft heard adage around UK chat boards is "listen harder"! Do the path profiling - in both directions - before emarking on amps. There may be a better way. As a sidenote, we have had to wait until quite recently for a AP/B TOTAL product in Europe with lower gain aerial as the previous version (I guess you guys in USA call it the regular version) would not pass compliance testing here - EIRP too high and you couldn't turn the power down sufficiently I concede that amps may have a place in p2p work, but not as a substitute for a well planned link, high gain aerials (even that is cheating here in UK), narrow beamwidth and correctly aligned antenna systems, which not only avoid you interfering with others around (nice and friendly - you might want to buy your neighbours system and customers one day !), but go some way to reducing interference from other users (and noise sources) on this shared resource. It would be interesting to hear from sB/amp users in UK (expect few replies). btw great list / terrific contributors / very informative. >From the other side of the pond. bw ----- Original Message ----- From: "shoffman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Amp Question > Has nothing to do with the last post, but is anybody considering FCC > power output rules in making these amping decisions? I can see the FCC > loosening up on "certified equipment matches" but on Power output? Heck, > I can already smell other WISPs around me, and I am sure everyone would > love to boost power, but wouldn't we be just cluttering airspace? I am a > proponent of only using what you need, not blasting for the sake of > blasting to get coverage wider off your deployment. (Sort of like me > putting up enough radios to steal all usable channels without the > customer base to support it, I am not for that.. That would reek of the > FCC wanting to come in and regulate tighter because we can't get along!) > > Just IMHO > > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:00:32 -0600 (CST) > Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Amp Question > > > I have a 1 watt outdoor amp that I bought from Electro-comm but never > > used, still in the box. I think I paid $465 for it. I'll take $400 obo > > if > > anyone is interested. > > > > Sam > > > > On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Patrick wrote: > > > > > If the price is right, I'd be interested also. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:49 AM > > > Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Amp Question > > > > > > > > > We've been thinking about carying the Luxul POE amp. But we were > > not sure what the interest level is. Here's a good time to ask. Is > > there any interest in a POE powered amp that would need to be protected > > from the weather? > > > > > > Mike B > > > Electro-comm > > > > > > Patrick wrote: > > > > > > Earl, > > > Does the RF Linx have POE power? I can't seem to find any from > > them that aren't power over coax.... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Earl Campbell > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Amp Question > > > > > > > > > Amps can be a curse also. The repeater becomes what we > > call an alligator mouth. Everyone in 30 mi radius can hear it bit the > > AP can't hear the CPE's. So be careful with amps and I recommend RF > > Linx. Good price and they have filtering in both the TX and RX side. > > > Earl UpHi.net > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Date: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 01:41:24 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Amp Question > > > > > > Not entirely correct. The amp must be part of a CERTIFIED > > SYSTEM. A number > > > of manufacturers provide same--YDI and others. > > > > > > JH > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Curt Perryman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:29 AM > > > Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Amp Question > > > > > > > > > > Amps are not authorized by the FCC and in fact are > > specifically prohibited > > > > in the Rules. Use of one would void the type > > acceptance. > > > > > > > > At 10:14 AM 11/05/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >I want to put an amp on a pop I have for testing a > > possible project. Does > > > > >anyone know an amp that isn't powered over the > > rf-cable like the ydi > > > outdoor > > > > >units? I have an APPO up the tower and wonder how > > people are putting the > > > > >amp in between the radio and antenna. Are any poe > > powered? I wouldn't > > > mind > > > > >making another cat5 run, I just don't want to run > > rf-cable and induce the > > > > >loss. > > > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > >Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List > > > > >To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type > > subscribe > > > > >smartBridges <yournickname> > > > > >To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body > > type unsubscribe > > > > >smartBridges) > > > > >Archives: http://archives.part-15.org > > > > > > > > The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List > > > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type > > subscribe > > > smartBridges <yournickname> > > > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body > > type unsubscribe > > > smartBridges) > > > > Archives: http://archives.part-15.org > > > > > > The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List > > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type > > subscribe smartBridges <yournickname> > > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type > > unsubscribe smartBridges) > > > Archives: http://archives.part-15.org > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > > IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here > > > > > > > > > > The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List > > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type subscribe > > smartBridges <yournickname> > > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type unsubscribe > > smartBridges) > > Archives: http://archives.part-15.org > > The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List > To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type subscribe smartBridges <yournickname> > To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type unsubscribe smartBridges) > Archives: http://archives.part-15.org > The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type subscribe smartBridges <yournickname> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type unsubscribe smartBridges) Archives: http://archives.part-15.org
