Jeff,
Would you perceive the following to be a set of tasks that is at least as
difficult as LSF Level 1?
Step 1
1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 3 minutes.
2. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 3 minutes but not more
than 3 minutes 30 seconds, and a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius.
3. 5 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 2
minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 3, 4, 5, and 6
minutes.
4. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 4 minutes and a landing in
a circle of 25-foot radius.
Step 2
1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 4 minutes.
2. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 4 minutes but not more
than 4 minutes 30 seconds, and landing in a circle of 25-foot radius.
3. 5 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 3
minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 4, 5, 6, and 7
minutes.
4. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 4 minutes, and landing in
a circle of 25-foot radius.
5. Three consecutive flights with an accumulated time of at least 15
minutes. Each of the three flights must be at least 3 minutes in duration.
Step 3
1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 5 minutes.
2. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 5 minutes but not more
than 5 minutes 30 seconds, and landing in a circle of 25-foot radius.
3. 4 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 3
minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 5, 7, and 9
minutes.
4. Three consecutive flights with an accumulated time of at least 15
minutes. Each of the three flights must be at least 3 minutes in duration.
All three flights must terminate with a landing in a circle of 25-foot
radius.
5. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 8 minutes and a landing in
a circle of 25-foot radius.
Step 4
1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 6 minutes.
2. 2 flights, each with duration of 5 minutes +/- 25 seconds, and
landing in a circle of 25-foot radius.
3. 4 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 4
minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 6, 8, and 10
minutes.
4. Three consecutive flights with an accumulated time of at least 15
minutes. Each of the three flights must be at least 3 minutes in duration.
All three flights must terminate with a landing in a circle of 25-foot
radius.
5. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 10 minutes and a landing
in a circle of 25-foot radius.
Step 5
1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 7 minutes.
2. 2 flights, each with duration of 5 minutes +/- 20 seconds, and
landing in a circle of 25-foot radius.
3. 3 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 5
minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 10, and 15
minutes. All three flights must terminate with a landing in a circle of
25-foot radius.
4. Three consecutive flights with an accumulated time of at least 15
minutes. Each of the three flights must be at least 3 minutes in duration.
All three flights must terminate with a landing in a circle of 25-foot
radius.
5. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 12 minutes and a landing
in a circle of 25-foot radius.
1. Tasks for a given step can be completed in any order.
2. All tasks for a lower step must be completed before tasks for a higher
step can be recognized.
3. All flights must be attested by a second person that is also engaged in
the Soaring Achievement Program.
4. All flights must begin with a launch by a hi-start, winch, or hand
launch.
5. The sailplane must land on the field for the flight to count.
6. Distances are measured from the tip of the sailplanes nose to the marked
spot. The sailplane must not be damaged to the extent that it cannot be
flown safely without prior repair and must not be inverted at the end of the
landing.
7. Time stops at the instant of the gliders initial contact with the ground.
If not, what would you change?
Regards,
Bob Johnson
Fond du Lac, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Steifel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:53 AM
To: dharban; rcse
Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion
Ok, I won't point and shoot. But the argument is weak about the pick up
or sun roof. Go rent a convertible. Others have done it.
The goal and return on a short course doesn't mimick the task. The air
could be great on the short course because of the landscape. The long
course is truly challenging.
The density issue means go travel outside your dense area to fly. I
used to live 9 miles out of Manhattan, in NJ I had to travel 1.5 hours
to go fly.. I don't understand the problem.
Go find an area to do goal and return. BTW I find the .5 km course to
be small and easy. I could easily position myself in the middle of the
course and fly the course easily. Thermalling is easy when you aren't
bouncing around in a vehichle... Air comes to you instead of You going
to air.
I don't get the 3 flights in 1 hour. the LSF prohibits the TD parts from
occurring in the same day for a similar reason, THE AIR CAN BE GREAT and
a 1 HOUR TIME FRAME Simply means you can be flying in great air. That's
not hard!!!. If the air is good it is easy. Also landing on an l4 tape
without the nerves of competition is easy.
So 3 flights with landings in 1 hour to me are quite easy and don't
represent a challenge.
I personally don't see that as a valid set of challenges. To me this is
a watered down acheivement program that doesn't challenge anyone Except
for the 8 hour slope.
I'm not impressed.
dharban wrote:
I don't know whether the people on this RCSE thread are reading the
corresponding thread or not so I am reposting a message I have on that
thread in this forum. Before everyone loads up to shoot, please
understand that these thoughts are offered not as definitive but more
as illustrative of what might be done with regard to an alternative
path. The posting includes a paper discussing evaluating achievement
award tasks based on skill requirements and an illustrative proposal as
to one way an alternative program might be structured:
A proposal regarding tasks and skills. This is partly a rehash of a
previous communication -- revised to illustrate one way a "Sportsman"
track Achievement Award program could be structured. The objectives in
this proposal are:
1. Mitigate the problems participants would have with regard to the
logistics and/or other difficulties required to complete the existing
LSF Competition Tasks.
2. Mitigate the problems participants have with respect to Goal and
Return tasks -- specifically the unsuitablility of this event for
people who live in densely populated areas, areas where it is unsafe
and/or illegal to fulfill the requirements of the task (most places it
is illegal to ride in the bed of a moving pickup truck and illegal for
passengers to not use their seatbelts -- thereby making operation of a
transmitter through an open sunroof problematic.)
3. To encourage some level of participation in group activities which
advance the sport.
4. To be mostly achievable with typical club at a typical club site.
5. To devise an alternative program where the challenge at any level is
comparable (+/_ to its existing LSF equivalent.
6. To complement and augment the existing LSF program.
Level I -- Exactly identical to current Level I tasks
Level II -- Exactly identical to current Level II tasks (I realize this
has a competition element, but it is easily achieveable at most club
sites and is consistent with objective 3 above.
Level III -- Identical with current Level III Thermal Duration and
Slope tasks.
Goal and Return is modified to allow distance to be flown in laps not
less than 0.5 KM per full lap (Minimum turning distance are approx. 792
feet.)
Competition Requirements Can be fulfilled either in accordance with
current Level III Competition requirements as written or by completing
any combination of the following competition event equivalents which
totals six "competition equivalent events".
(A) Placing in a competition event which has 10 or more entrants.
(B) Completing a competition equivalent event which consists of three
rounds of 10 minute AMA Task T2 (Precision Duration) using an AMA L4
Spot landing with a total score greater than or equal to 2000 points*.
All three rounds must be completed within 1 hour.
Level IV -- Identical with current Level IV Thermal Duration and Slope
tasks.
Goal and Return is modified to allow distance to be flown in laps not
less than 0.5 KM per full lap (Minimum turning distance are approx. 792
feet.)
Competition Requirements Can be fulfilled either in accordance with
current Level IV Competition requirements as written or by completing
any combination of the following competition event equivalents which
totals six "competition equivalent events".
(A) Placing in a competition event which has 15 or more entrants.
(B) Completing a competition equivalent event which consists of three
rounds of 10 minute AMA Task T2 (Precision Duration) using an AMA L4
Spot landing with a total score greater than or equal to 2000* points.
All three rounds must be completed within 1 hour.
Level V -- Identical with current Level V Thermal Duration and Slope
tasks. (I realize that this includes an onerous Slope task which cannot
be substituted with another Thermal task. At this level of
accomplishment, this is the one compromise in this proposal to the
concept of solving the logistics problem (perhaps an exception could be
granted for aspirants who do not live within 500 miles or some other
such distance from a reasonable slope.)
Goal and Return is modified to allow distance to be flown in laps not
less than 0.5 KM per full lap (Minimum turning distance are approx. 792
feet.)
Competition Requirements Can be fulfilled either in accordance with
current Level V Competition requirements as written or by completing
any combination of the following competition event equivalents which
totals six "competition equivalent events".
(A) Placing in a competition event which has 20 or more entrants.
(B) Completing a competition equivalent event which consists of three
rounds of 10 minute AMA Task T2 (Precision Duration) using an AMA L4
Spot landing with a total score greater than or equal to 2350 points.
All three rounds must be completed within 1 hour.
For Level V only,in addition to (or as a part of) completing the
combination of the 6 competition and/or "competition equivalent" events
the aspirant would be required to participate in at least three
competition events with more than 25 entrants. (the events used to
satisfy this requirement could include events which qualify for (A)
above. (I realize this, too, runs counter to Objective #1 above, but at
this level of achievement -- reallly thin air -- it does not seem
unreasonable to expect the aspirant to do a little more to support
Objective #3 above.)
*Points suggested for these tasks may need revision. Perhaps LSF can
look at results of past LSF events and interpolate better numbers -- or
perhaps LSF competitors can suggest appropriate numbers.
I prepared this proposal mindful of the criteria set forth in a paper I
provided earlier (copy attached). I realize full on that this is just
one (perhaps terribly misguided) opinion -- but it seemed to me
worthwhile to throw out at a time when the thread seems to be getting
caught up in discussion of us vs. LSF.
At any rate take it for what it's worth.
Don
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