You have some points but not totally correct. The Cobra was designed in the UK Much
closer to Americans...they speak english...after
a fashion. The next set of WINNING F3B sailplanes will come from the USA. Both Joe and
Daryl have two fantastic sailplanes in the
works which I think will be the new standards. About the Psyko Molded....Actually did
pretty well in F3J competition in the worlds,
but John blew two flights. Not the plane's fault actually not his either, just bad
luck and breaking lines. I would have to say that
the Psyko Molded makes a good choice for one out of the three planes you would take to
an F3J competition. Speaking of F3J...The
Best competition F3J in the world is being built right here in the USA. Don Peters'
Icon is going to blow away the competition. You
know why? Planform and design by Mr Wurts. The layup, along with properly machined
molds and the layup skills of Don Peters. It will
be very strong, light and incredibly efficient. Even better it pulls on tow harder
than anything else before (this part I got from
Joe)
I was being blunt in what I said. The competition in the USA is TD. The plane design
is particular to these tasks. Just like 60"
racing (I do mean real racing not F3F sissy boy stuff) is best designed here in the
USA. Manno a Manno. You don't have to buy from
me (although I always appreciate it) but do try to support the designers in this
country when you can. We really don't want to
depend on the europeans for everything we fly do we? Encourage companies to design
with american know how at the very least. These
designs can still be built in Europe if need be.
Also remember one other thing. It is only a matter of time before the euro catches up
with the dollar. Hate to see all the designers
gone in this country and now we have to by really Expensive euro(stuff)
The F3J sailplanes designed in Europe today are in general, probably the best, BUT
this is because they went through redesign after
Joe W kick there collective butts in the first worlds. They typically undersided their
stabs and made the planes too heavy. Now this
is for the F3J tasks. In the first worlds half the competitors could hardly get into
the 100 point landing and its big! Since then
they have learned to design the airplane to be better for the task mainly due to
seeing a Diamond fly.
Eurupeans can build and if pushed can design, but Americans WILL WIN! BE PATRIOTIC!
BTW...support the F3B team and lets take home
anothe team win and hopefully another world Champ! Anybody want to lay odds on if
Daryl can make it 4 times?
Jason Werner wrote:
> I wouldn't say that at all! Sorry Sal, but I have to disagree with you
> here.
>
> The US market that you are speaking to is to US style TD tasks. That is
> your emphasis, and to be honest, most everyone in the US market. That
> includes most of hte people on this list.
>
> The European market has a STRONG trend towards FAI tasks. This is the
> majority of the modelers there, and the majority of hte development comes
> from this sector. NOT the US designed planes.
>
> It is apples and oranges again!!!!! The European designers are designing to
> TOTALLY different tasks then the US market (again, Sal's primary market!)
> They spend signifigant resources, design, and talent in this area. I would
> say that they have KILLEd the US designers in this aspect, from construction
> to design!
>
> For example. The Cobra. Arguably the best F3b plane out there right now
> (from a mass produced plane perspective). European (UK) design. Designed
> for F3b and as an aside, F3j. SUCKS for US TD tasks, though many people can
> make it work. From a performance standpoint, it has shown to be one of the
> consistant performers out there. Is it the best design? No, nor is it the
> best constructed, but from a performance standpoint it beats ALL US designed
> and mass produced planes out there.
>
> Another example. The Eclipse 2V reigned supreme in F3f. Until another
> couple of Euro designs took over...the Pike and that other snappy plane :)
>
> Third example. The Tragi designs are showing to be a great design,
> currently holding hte distance record and I think will be a top competitor
> in F3b next cycle.
>
> Lots of designing, lots of AWESOME manufacturing, but again the emphasis is
> towards FAI tasks, not US TD tasks.
>
> When discussing designs, planes, etc...we have to keep in mind who is using
> it, and what they are designing it for. The Euros design to their market,
> the US designs towards theirs. Sal has some great planes available for the
> US market/tasks, and the Euro planes have some designed towards their tasks.
> So far not a huge amount of overlap occurs mainly because the tasks are so
> different.
>
> Keep that in mind when buying a new plane. That Cobra you ahve been looking
> at will probably not be the best US TD plane out there regardless if it is
> the top F3b plane on the market. Nor will that Escape, or Agat, or Pike
> Plus, or a variety of other F3b and F3j designed planes. Note I left out
> EURO planes. A US designed FAI plane will fit right in with the Euro
> designed FAI planes. Also don't expect that Psyco Molded plane to do well
> at an FAI task when other dedicated FAI planes are being used.
>
> Jason Werner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sal DeFrancesco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Dieter @ ShredAir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [RCSE] eurotrash?
>
> > That's not what I meant! In most cases the Europeans can build a decent
> layup with enough spar strength. Where they fall down is in
> > design and weight.
> >
> > "Dieter @ ShredAir" wrote:
> >
> > > >Seriuosly...I do have a soft spot for American made and designed
> > > >sailplanes beating eurotrash (I sell them too!).
> > >
> > > True, there sure is a lot of molded trash out there. Extra care needs
> > > to be taken to make a molded plane light, yet strong. As I said
> > > before, getting'em shiny on the outside is easy.
> > >
> > > Here are a few points which destinguish a high-quality model from
> "trash:"
> > >
> > > 1. The spar transects the inner skin and sandwich material and
> > > intimately connects the outer skins of upper and lower wing halfs
> > > without using excessive (=heavy) epoxy putty. This requires extremely
> > > precise spar construction, and very few manufacturers go to this
> > > trouble. Some slap in a loose-fitting spar between the inside-skins
> > > only, and fill the gaps with putty.
> > > Look at the detail shots of any of our F5B/F/J planes, and you see
> > > what I mean. Or better yet, if you're coming to Phoenix this weekend,
> > > look at one of the Stratoses, Ellipses, Escapes, Artemises, etc.
> > > there. Also, you can't miss my extreeeemely heavy (84 ounces) Scar,
> > > another plane sticking out above the trash heap.
> > >
> > > 2. Using high-grade material and proper layup schedules. I'm no
> > > expert here, but I know that not all aramid (Kevlar) or glass or
> > > carbon fibers are created equal. I do know that cutting fabric "on
> > > the bias" costs more. At the very least, see if the servo pockets of
> > > thin wings are underlaid with carbon or that extra molded-in pockets
> > > are provided for servos.
> > >
> > > 3. Properly curing the parts. The top planes are heat-tempered in
> > > the mold for 24 hours, then left in the mold to finish-cure for
> > > several days. This results in harder and stronger skins and spars
> > > and more warp-resistant parts. Only a few top manufacturers go to
> > > this trouble; they also build spars as described above.
> > >
> > > Lookin' forward t' meet'n y'alls in Phoenix...
> > >
> > > Dieter Mahlein
> > > ShredAir, Inc.
> > > http://shredair.com
> > >
> > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"
> and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > --
> > Sal DeFrancesco
> > Northeast Sailplane Products
> > 948 Hercules Dr. Suite 12
> > Colchester, Vt. 05446
> > 802-655-7700
> >
> > Website: http://www.nesail.com
> >
> >
> > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe"
> and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and
>"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Sal DeFrancesco
Northeast Sailplane Products
948 Hercules Dr. Suite 12
Colchester, Vt. 05446
802-655-7700
Website: http://www.nesail.com
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and
"unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
