Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] michaellane

[Chick Hurst]

Dear Friends, Chick was the only one to respond to an invitation of mine to comment on the peculiar challenges of implementing social credit in a mini-nation.  He says that every nation with agricultural capabilities should be self-sufficient and trade "should be only a side issue." I can't really agree, for this implies that a mini-nation that can grow its own food must set its standard of living as--eating.  If it cannot make telephones, it must not have any, etc. Trying to envisage social credit in a small nation is a valuable exercise because it forces us to elaborate the foreign trade side of social credit, which isn't usually explained beyond "Exports pay for imports."  It's the correct rule, but it's complex in implementation.  If you think about a clearly non-self-sufficient unit, you realize that money both enters and leaves the country for consumer goods, for capital goods, and for labor, leading to a complex situation that deserves more comment by social crediters than it has so far got. Economically, a city is in the same position as a mini-nation. (And no, Chick, no tax is needed to withdraw money from circulation.  I think you are imagining the government watching the cpi and increasing or decreasing the money supply to keep the cpi steady.  That is not social credit.  Money is withdrawn from circulation as yesterday's loans are repaid, and the net amount of money in circulation can decrease if today's loan is less thanks to cheaper production.  No tax should be required at all, since the minimal funds required by government in a healty society can be taken out of the dividend before it is paid.) Michael Lane Triumph of the Past ==^==^==================================================   Chick: My problem is that I assume too much and I should know that that is dangerous.   What I am saying is that if a nation can feed itself, than it is capable of virtually anything.  If a nation can feed itself it is dependant on another nation and the import/export chain can be broken at any time by the nation that is not dependant on the other.  The result is either, war, starvation or a merging of the two nations.    The province of New Found Land is a perfect example.  As a separate country, as it was before 1949, it could have been self sufficient if it had have understood and accepted its own responsibilities.  It could feed itself, and if it is capable to build anything.  If it is capable of building anything and the Government is utilizing the Central Bank properly it is capable to import and that importation includes any and all modern technologies and export same.   A city is a good example of a small nation but most cities do not have the capabilities to feed itself.  It can still do anything but it is a dependant entity.  A city can only be used as an example when it already exists.  If you were to take a small area and focus on the people and what there needs are, food, and what it takes to do this, the rest is possible.  After a city exists, the amount of land available for growing food is limited but it is capable of everything else.   A study of the Mondragon region of Spain would make a good study.  Even after being completely cut off from government services the people were capable of building a very impressive agri-industrial complex by working together and the use of their Credit Union.   As for taxation, no country needs to be taxed.  At present, the process of taxation is used on an ongoing basis to extract cash from society and thereby causes a shortage.  If capital was to come into existence debt free and through the people, it is possible that you could end up with too much cash in existence after a period of time; you may not but you also may.  Only at that time would it be necessary to extract cash from society and that could be easily and fairly done by a process of taxing cash transactions that are above a set limit.   It is important to make sure that the system does not obstruct the inflow through the people and the people should never be put into a position of indigence or having to prove indigence in order to qualify for a program, service or assistance.    Also, if it was done properly, there would be no need for many of the very expensive programs and institutions that are necessary under the present system, the citizens would be able to be accepted and/or appreciated for what they are. Writers, for example, could accomplish their craft with dignity and respect where as in the present system most writers and poets starve to death and their work is not appreciated as real work, but more as a pass-time.   Chick    ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Social Credit Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 3:34 PM Subject: [SOCIAL CREDIT] michaellane Dear Friends, Chick was the only one to respond to an invitation of mine to comment on the peculiar challenges of implementing social credit in a mini-nation.  He says that every nation with agricultural capabilities should be self-sufficient and trade "should be only a side issue." I can't really agree, for this implies that a mini-nation that can grow its own food must set its standard of living as--eating.  If it cannot make telephones, it must not have any, etc. Trying to envisage social credit in a small nation is a valuable exercise because it forces us to elaborate the foreign trade side of social credit, which isn't usually explained beyond "Exports pay for imports."  It's the correct rule, but it's complex in implementation.  If you think about a clearly non-self-sufficient unit, you realize that money both enters and leaves the country for consumer goods, for capital goods, and for labor, leading to a complex situation that deserves more comment by social crediters than it has so far got. Economically, a city is in the same position as a mini-nation. (And no, Chick, no tax is needed to withdraw money from circulation.  I think you are imagining the government watching the cpi and increasing or decreasing the money supply to keep the cpi steady.  That is not social credit.  Money is withdrawn from circulation as yesterday's loans are repaid, and the net amount of money in circulation can decrease if today's loan is less thanks to cheaper production.  No tax should be required at all, since the minimal funds required by government in a healty society can be taken out of the dividend before it is paid.) Michael Lane Triumph of the Past ==^^=============================================================== This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84IaC.bcVIgP.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^^===============================================================