At home I have 2 older Dell precisions workstations. A precision 470 circa
2004 with dual Xeons and hyperthreading (4 total cores), and a Precision
T5400 from 2008 with dual Quadcore Xeon processors (8 total cores). Both
work just fine with Softimage, Houdini, and other applications out there
today.
In my experience the bottleneck to performance is the graphics card, not the
CPU. I've had to upgrade those a few times. An SSD for the boot drive does
wonders as well. I have a Samsung 850 pro for that. It really screams with
sustained throughput for large transfers. One weird thing I've found about
SSD's - larger capacity drives tend to perform better.
Anyway, because the computers are older, I can upgrade them at much lower
cost. For example, I upgraded the T5400 from it's original core duo
configuration to top of the line (for that model) dual Quadcore Xeons at
less than $200 USD. I upgraded the 470 from 1GB RAM to 16 GB RAM for less
than $100 USD. I get better performance out of both computers with full
upgrades than I could with a new purchase that is sparsely configured, and
can do it at much less overall cost. A new purchase would set me back at
least $3,000, but probably more. My two older computers, if I had to
purchase them again today, could be purchased fully loaded for less than
$1,000 USD. I'm not suggesting you outfit your classroom with 7-10 year old
computers, just making the point that you don't need the latest greatest
features or the newest model year to outfit a classroom with capable
computers on a limited budget. Dell's current precision lineup has the
7910, 7900, and the 5810. I would bypass those and look at the older 7610,
7600, and 5600 as you could get any of those for less than $3,000 if you
shop around, and most places still offer full 3 year warranties.
In the past new computers were practically mandatory because hardware was
lagging so far behind software and every ounce of power made a huge
difference to getting anything done in a reasonably amount of time, or done
at all. While that may still apply to advanced and massively
computationally expensive features, most students are grappling with the
basics and not experienced enough to take advantage of the latest advances
and optimizations, or have need for that much computational power. If they
need that much power, chances are they've been very wasteful in how they've
set up their scenes. Therefore, there shouldn't be a pressing need to get
the newest computer.
I would also argue learning on a slower computer is more beneficial as it
educates the user of the computational costs of various tasks. One problem
I've witnessed in games production over the years is present day students
roll out of school into production and have no clue why games are running
slow when their content is dumped into the engine, or even Softimage. They
had been taught on such fast computers that they didn't see the difference
in performance of using shaded mode vs. wireframe, or turning on heads up
display info vs. not. As a result when they got into production their
content was horribly bloated and performance taxing. Lots of reworking is
usually involved costing a lot of time and money to correct. This is one
reason why I keep older computers around as I like to see my mistakes
magnified when programming so they are easier to locate and fix.
The only pressure point I can see to buying new is marketing of the school's
program. If prospective students ask about why you have older hardware,
just explain the points above about seeing performance and so forth. The
more you put it into a practical light, the better it'll sell the serious
student that your program is credible.
Matt
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 21:27:49 +0200
From: Tim Leydecker <bauero...@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Virtual Apps
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
In terms of workstation costs, HP&Dell may be frustrating to get into
when on a limited budget. The entry fee is already pretty high and
any basic feature will add up quickly to a really, really hefty pricetag.
It?s not all their fault, Intel has pricetags that are pretty much
unrivaled,
not just for Xeons.
It?s really hard to build reasonably priced Xeon based workstations
nowadays.
My DualXeon MacPro2008 was incredibly cheap for what it could do...
The good news is, there is now less need for a Dual Socket, Dual Xeon
12Core,
workstation machine with a quadro this or that card really when learning
3d&Comp.
It?s nice to have ultra fast machines of course but a decent Quadcore or
Sixcore or 8core
Single Socket Machine with a good Geforce 9xx and at least 32GB RAM
(more is better)
will be a nice machine to work with and render with. Add a system ssd
and its solid for
less than 1650 EUR. Maybe even including a reasonably good display, like
a mid-price Dell.
Not the fastest to have but a good educational experience for learning
to use a renderer properly, too.
How about finding an alternative vendor for a lease?
Have a reliable (local) shop build and maintain the machines, find a way
to make the leasing
less than three years, get a batch of refurbished machines to start with
and have those run
only 2 years, with a return contract or trade in type of deal?
You could still try to get some money/funds for a render server with
loads of bandwdth and diskspace?
That could last 3 years?
Cheers,
tim
Am 10.06.2015 um 17:44 schrieb Angus Davidson:
Dear Peter
Thank you for the incredibly comprehensive response.
The crazy kindergarten accountancy at the university means that the
lab computers need to be paid for by the schools from their operating
budgets (which are not keeping up with inflation).
However things like VCA are expensive enough to be considered Major
Capex and that amazingly enough they have funds for. So its mostly
about reading the situation at the University and trying to plan
around it.
Kind regards
Angus
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* pete...@skynet.be [pete...@skynet.be]
*Sent:* 10 June 2015 02:41 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: Virtual Apps
if you mean using a thin client on the desk, to connect to a remote
workstation (in the server room) ? then yes ? have used this at a
former studio.
overall it worked quite well.
on the thin client you would launch an app, on which you chose the
workstation to login to and then a full screen window opens on which
you see the workstations? desktop ? and you work you session.
It?s very intuitive ? apart from a few keyboard combos (ctrl-alt-del
is on the thin client, so there?s a different combination to send that
to the workstation)
You could use the thin client at any desk to log in to any equipped
workstation ? handy at times ? chaotic when your team members end up
all over the place.
The overhead on the workstation is pretty much zero. The added card
handles the compression/communication ? so you can push the
workstation exactly as before.
there was hardware compression/decompression of all signals ? so it
meant adding a dedicated card in the workstation - all data (kb,
mouse, usb as well as monitors) goes through network. afaik the screen
refresh is done on the thin client ? which reduces the amount of data
to be sent (no screens full of pixels) but also makes sure that
despite long cable length, image quality is high . (compared to all
KVM extenders I ever saw)
To the very demanding artist there is a barely noticeable lag and some
degradation ? you can kind of make out the compression ? but you do
have to look for it. We decided on using the thin clients only for 3D
artists, not for compositors. It would work for compositing most of
the time, but when checking final images/shots, occasional little
flicks or spots from the compression are disturbing. If you are the
person who has 3 oversized monitors on his desk, and expects to have
film quality visuals while modeling ? this might not be for you.
image quality can suffer from network load ? as compression adapts
some ? and at a few peak moments network was so taxed (not because of
the thin clients) that connections between clients and stations were
lost massively. That?s unfortunate and real disruptive ? but once the
load was balanced again you would just login and the workstation was
right where you left off ? preferable to crashes and shutdowns. But
it?s something to be aware of - if you have a problematic network,
thin clients will add to the frustration.
An added benefit was that there was much less heat generated and
electricity used in the office rooms ? in small cramped, badly
ventilated and badly equipped offices that can be a tangible benefit.
I have memories of humming workstations under desks, burning
desklights and running ventilators everywhere (including on an opened
workstation case which is a very bad idea) creating an unpleasant and
unhealthy microclimate. The switch to thin clients was heavenly. As
were LED desklights.
Hope it helps some.
It?s a big step ? that you need to consider carefully with your
supplier (ours was HP) ? and ideally in a riskfree way, where you get
the setup on test, with the option to return if unsatisfactory ?
because some consequences/constraints are unexpected and to a degree
it?s a personal experience. I can very well see this working
marvelously in one studio and being a total no-go in another.
Now, I?m not getting the financial angle ? to me a thin client is an
added cost ? it would not replace any workstations or make them any
less redundant.
The idea of a thin client is that the heavy lifting is done elsewhere
? workstation, server, on the cloud,...
If you mean using a thin client (as in: a very low specced computer)
instead of a workstation ? that?s something else altogether.
Now, a thin client today might more powerful than a supercomputer of
the past ? so there might be cases where it would work.
But if you want to get bang for buck, I?d look elsewhere ? as a thin
client is not made to customize and beef up and ultimately to put
decent specs in. I?d look at barebones rather.
*From:* Angus Davidson <mailto:angus.david...@wits.ac.za>
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:29 AM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Virtual Apps
Hi Folks
Has anyone had any experience using 3d apps like Softimage, Maya,
Unity (for our games side) via a thin client. Most of the marketing
stuff pretty much makes it look like Christmas in July, but is very
thin on actual metrics. ie Latency, numbers of concurrent apps etc.
We are in a position where our currency is dropping against the
dollar/euro a lot faster then we are allowed to raise fees. So in 2
years when our currently negotiated lease for our 100+ machines runs
out, we are looking at the very real possibility of not been able to
afford machines that are 3D capable themselves.
Oddly one of the few relatively untapped budgets is Major Capex
(minimum $50 000 - $250 000), which wont cover a computer but would
cover something like a few NVIDIA VCA's
Kind regards
Angus
This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not
copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the
University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into
agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised
that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the
author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between
the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless
the University agrees in writing to the contrary.
This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not
copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the
University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into
agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised
that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the
author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between
the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless
the University agrees in writing to the contrary.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://listproc.autodesk.com/pipermail/softimage/attachments/20150610/9668cfc6/attachment.html
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Softimage mailing list
Softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
http://listproc.autodesk.com/mailman/listinfo/softimage
End of Softimage Digest, Vol 79, Issue 27
*****************************************
