Oh that's nothing - you should exchange mail with George after he's been an all night coffee and nic' bender trying to get out one of his proverbial "rush" jobs. We use a grammar/translator utility to decipher some of his correspondences ...
Steve L. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Pinigis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Re[2]: Mininum Supply Pressure Your command of the language began to degrade in that last posting. Paul J. Pinigis, P.E. Chief Life Safety Engineer -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Re[2]: Mininum Supply Pressure If you design a system to x psi cushion and add fittings resulting in excess of x, then you have not met the minimum consensus standard. Period. If you end up in court, or if the *&^*& inspector actually walks around with the dwgs and notices what differs and "catches" it, actually DOING HIS JOB RIGHT, you'll have a very difficult (expensive) fix on your hands- as ceilings are being finished, carpets going in, and hey- let's run a 6" main between the front and back main. 'Cause your REVISED calc of the installation (not the intended installation) will prove it don't work, don't meet code, etc. Imagine showing a 1000 gpm pump in calc and on plan. Install a 500 gpm pump by mistake. Stand there and say there's lots of cushion built into them thar codes so we can ignore the change and everything will be fine. BTW, unless you've designed a system with 12" risers, 10" mains, and 6" lines, you haven't done everything to either give yourself (and the Owner) more than a .9 psi cushion, or done everything to avoid a fire pump. And does your boss seriously believe if someone else designs a system that he will install and is under contract to do correctly, that the entire hit will fall to this other entity and leave him standing? Unless I had no assets, and VSC, Wiginton, Cosco, or similarly sized (and fiscal strengthed)firm was designing for me, I wouldn't dream of hanging the first piece of pipe. And the likelihood a firm like that would expose their assets so you can hang pipe with no cushion, with them holding the bag, is none. Was your boss thinking that if they drew it, and he needed to add a couple 90's, the design firm would pony up the money for the fire pump? R i g h t. glc -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Pinigis Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Re[2]: Mininum Supply Pressure NFPA, IBC, and IFC are not wrong! They are the adopted standards, and as such we must comply with them. Unless you can quantify a value to exceeding these requirements you are wasting someone's money. Paul J. Pinigis, P.E. Chief Life Safety Engineer -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Re[2]: Mininum Supply Pressure Yeah, now we're getting to the good stuff. Ideally a safety margin is a good thing. Asking an owner to spend $50k to add a pump IMHO shows a real lack of imagination. If it complies with code who are we to say "I know better"? It takes a PE to know that NFPA, IBC, IFC and the local AHJ are all wrong. Surely no layout technician would say they know better than the codes. In honor of St. Patrick's I though I would try to start a fight. Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Sprinkler Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Re[2]: Mininum Supply Pressure That may be a blessing in disguise, let them put their neck on the line. If I ain't got 10% it ain't going in, period. Regards, Brian Harris First Defense Fire Protection Design Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 704.948.3506 phone 704.948.3507 fax -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Thurston Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re[2]: Mininum Supply Pressure Hello All, Well this all started when I did not have any excess pressure for a safety margin and informed the General Contractor a small fire pump would be required. He decided to take the drawings to another sprinkler contractor for a second opinion, This other sprinkler contractor stated it could be done without a pump. At this time the owner of the company I work for and the general contractor decided to sub out a "redesign" of the system to this other sprinkler contractor (we still get to do the install). This other sprinkler company supplied the drawings, calcs, COC, and Spec sheets. Friday, March 16, 2007, 9:40:29 AM, you wrote: > Yet another case of calculate with a computer, measure with a > micrometer, mark with a piece of chalk and chop off with an axe. > Ron Fletcher > Aero Automatic > Phoenix, AZ > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles > Thurston > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:19 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Mininum Supply Pressure > Hello All, > Let me be the one to start things today. > What is the minimum safety pressure allowed ? I have looked in 13 and > did not find it.... I have a situation where the safety pressure is > 0.913 psi. > Basis is: > Hose 250 > Static 67.00 > Residual 38.00 @ 920.00 > Available 40.128 @ demand of 882.87 > Requires 39.215 psi > Leaving a safety of 0.913 psi > > -- > Best regards, > Charles mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Coastal Fire Protection > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Best regards, Charles mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
