I agree with Jeff that "an extra effort should be made to report this to the local authority". Just a few years ago, a project that I worked on was designed and calculated to meet a certain set of given storage arrangements. These parameters were given to us by the owner. Everything was ok right up to the end of the project and through the acceptance process by the AHJ. Later, a TI was given to us and during a survey I found that the owner was now exceeding the limitations that he had given us. Not just by a little, but by sixteen to eighteen feet in one area. Another person and myself brought this to his attention, had meetings with him, etc... This guy had the attitude that he didn't even need sprinklers, and he even made the statement that "I could hold a torch to those tires for 15 seconds and nothing would happen". We informed him of all the storage limitations (that he was already aware of) and then ended our meeting with him. I left his office feeling ignored and knew that everything that was said went on deaf ears. So, I then wrote a short two page letter summarizing the events that occurred, the infractions that I knew about, and the answers that we received. This letter first went to the owner of the company that I worked for at the time, and then it went to the owner of the business, and then to the local AHJ. Every effort was first taken to ensure that this owner knew what was expected of him, and he was given a reasonable opportunity to comply. Only after he was given reasonable instruction and he refused to comply did I, we, report this to the AHJ. To my knowledge, since the time that the AHJ stepped in, this company has been in compliance. Some people simply need to know that what they are doing is wrong and that you will not allow them to continue ignoring good judgment and sound life protection.
Bob Knight -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Hewitt Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:42 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: owners information certificate I agree with George, except about his CET opinion. seriously Walk away if you can. Some forumites may disagree, but an extra effort should be made to report this to the local authority. I believe that you have a responsibility to the overall public safety to do this, and are basically compelled to do it by both the NICET code of ethics and the PE code of ethics. If the AHJ does not do anything about it, then you should consult your lawyer, and document the hell out of it. Jeff Hewitt, PE, SET, SFPE (Prof. Member) Corporate Engineer Bi-State Fire Protection Corporation 636-946-0011 636-946-5172 (FAX) This e-mail and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be protected by one or more legal privileges. It is intended solely for the use of the addressee identified above. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of this e-mail is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately at the above captioned address. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Church" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:39 AM Subject: RE: owners information certificate > Todd, I think the chances of getting PAIN IN FULL are excellent. > > I threw the car example out just as a parallel. > > Assuming you can find work to keep your guys busy, RUN AWAY is by far the > best advice. Life's too short to do business with the unethical. > > Even if you install it properly, will it be maintained? Will the heat stay > on (ok, you're in FL)? If there is a loss, will the Owner try to lie and > opin it on you by fabricating a story to pin the liability on you? > > RUN AWAY > And once you've done that, you are no longer the agent of the owner, not > having any contractual bind. This frees you up to call the AHJ and explain > what is coming at him. That is the ETHICAL way to handle this, IMHO. > Except I can't have an opinion, just being a CET :) > > glc > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd > Williams > - work > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:24 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: owners information certificate > > Greg, > > Run, don't walk away. This guy is an ethical nightmare. If he does > this type of thing, what are your odds of getting pain in full? Or > what else does he have out there that could potentially hurt you? I > would contact your attorney, explain to him the situation and see > what his/her advise would be on protecting yourself, but leave this > for your competition. If you've already signed on, talk to your > attorney about this from that perspective. Maybe you have an escape route. > > Todd > > > > At 12:03 PM 3/20/2007, you wrote: >>Part A: >> >> >> >>What do we (as an industry) do when an owner completes the Owner's >>Information Certificate incorrectly to deliberately mislead an AHJ? >> >> >> >>Part B: >> >> >> >>What do we do when they technically tell the truth as in building a >>warehouse that has no storage above 12' initially but they have every >>intention (because they tell you so) to store PODS 24' high after they get > a >>CO? >> >> >> >>BTW, the reason I have been unsuccessful in convincing the owner of the >>proper level of protection is because there have 2 of these buildings >>built >>within 200 miles in the last few months and both of them had minimal >>systems. The installing contractor on one of the jobs told me that they > were >>told the building was a spec warehouse and to protect it as an empty >>building and after they were done the owner would lease it to the PODS >>franchisee. His comment was "I don't know if that protects me or not" >> >> >> >>Legally? >> >> >> >>Morally I feel bound to walk away from this project but that just means > that >>they will find someone else to do the job incorrectly and although there >>is >>no liability involved, there is still the knowledge that the building >>(Ord. >>Group II) will be grossly under protected. >> >> >> >>I know the argument that we are not police of the industry nor can we 2nd >>guess what the potential future occupancy of a building is or may be one >>day, but this is different and one of the 2 scenarios listed above is >>going >>to happen on this project. >> >> >> >>Thanks for your input, >> >>Greg >> >> >> >>Living Water Fire Protection, LLC >> >>1160 McKenzie Road >> >>Cantonment, FL 32533 >> >>850-937-1850 >> >>Fax: 850-937-1852 >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > 860-535-2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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