I ended up on the following site for another reason and stumbled on some compatibility discussion. Not exactly what Paul was looking for but it adds some information to the general discussion.
http://www.blazemaster.com/DESIGNSPECIFICATION/system-Compatible-introductio n.asp What I found interesting is the number of thread sealant that are NOT compatible with Blazemaster. Perhaps nosing around the site will reveal some more info directly on the topic. I do see listing info under the design and spec tab at the top. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 4:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: CPVC products I contacted Noveon prior to mixing the white pvc and listed cpvc and was assured that there was not a chemical compatibility problem. We mix it a lot on main drains simply because we use what's on the truck. The reason I contacted Noveon was a very large project where we were connecting to existing white pvc for the underground supply and we did not want to go from pvc to thread back to cpvc underground. We also contacted Spears to make sure there was not a chemical compatibility issue for this project. They were cautious but did admit that there was not a problem. We also got tired of throwing expensive (in comparison) cpvc caps away after testing some projects and started using the white caps for testing only. Then we cut them off and install sprinklers when ceilings are framed. We have NEVER had one of these to fail under 200 to 225 psi. After all of that, because we do not want to make a mistake, why did you say it was a NO NO? Do you know something specific that is a problem or are you talking about using the white pvc because of listing problems? Greg Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 Fax: 850-937-1852 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 3:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: CPVC products Victaulic did use resin made by Georgia Gulf as did Spears. Spears did make some of the larger sizes of fitting for Tyco and I assume that they still do but in general Tyco uses Noveon. Reliable sells Harvel pipe which is Noevon resin and Spears fittings which I thought used Georgia Gulf but maybe not. Viking has bought or restarted the old Thompson fittings and pipe which will use Neovon. The Noveon reps tried to push the compatibility issue but they had a problem after Thompson fittings went off the market and there were no manufacturers of fittings that used Neoveon except Tyco so they kind of back off that issue. If you have any doubts about the compatibility please go the Spears web site. Basically if the product is UL Listed and/or FM Approved there should not be a problem. But I would caution against using white pvc and intermixing it with CPVC. That is a NO NO. Michael L. Brown The Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Company. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 2:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: CPVC products The different brands of CPVC are cross-listed, particularly the Spears-Noveon family interconnections. I'm pretty sure that Victaulic is Noveon and not proprietary; Spears is proprietary in that they are starting from scratch with raw material. Steve Leyton PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: CPVC products We have used every combination known to man including mixing the Orange pipe and fittings with normal white PVC using the One Step glue (for drains, UG, etc) with absolutely no problems whatsoever. Greg Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 Fax: 850-937-1852 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Sincaglia Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: CPVC products Ron- I generally assumed the same thing....but you know what assumptions do. I was wrong. There are a number of suppliers of CPVC and of course only those using Noveon's resin product in accordance with their terms etc. can be called "Blazemaster". Other companies are making CPVC pipe and/or fittings using resins that are not "Blazemaster". One good example is Spears who used to be Blazemaster but has since changed for whatever reason. The only issue I have identified so far is that some CPVC manufacturer's and/or products may not have all of the same UL listings. For example Blazemaster brand pipe may be listed for use in a riser application but a competitor may not be. Obviously this listing distinction would only matter if you were using the CPVC pipe in particular application where there was a unique listing issue. Moreover, this listing issue may be an academic issue. From what I can tell, the special listing distinctions simply mean that one entity has gone through the trouble to test their product in a particular orientation (to expand market use) and the other guy has not done so (yet). >From an AHJ standpoint, the listing distinction does matter as that is the code...but as an AHJ myself (my other hat) I don't know that I have ever made the distinction (I learned something today). My thinking was always....it is Orange...it doesn't leak....it passes the hydrostatic test etc...Good to Go. Now I have something else to torment sprinkler contractors with. Which brings me back to the original question...Is there any factual data that would indicate that competing CPVC products are incompatible? Paul -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Mark Hoyt Subject: Re: CPVC products Paul, As far as I know the only manufacturer of cpvc pellets (the "raw" material) is Noveon and that they will only sell their product to manufacturers that adhere their (Noveon's) manufacturing standards so essentially all cpvc is the same. There used to be a compatibility issue with a different base material manufactured by GEM before Tyco acquired Grinnell but the GEM product has not been available for years. I'm ccing a copy of this to Mark Hoyt (Noveon rep hereabouts) and a trusted friend, Mark, can you confirm my comments or give Paul the true skinny. On 4/12/07, Paul Sincaglia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Folks- > > Just a general question regarding CPVC. > > As a specifier, I normally make no distinctions regarding the > manufacturer or brand name for piping or fittings. I simply state the > material and relevant/applicable ASTM standards etc. After all, I want > my clients to get the best pricing and open specs tend to do that. > Obviously I make exceptions to that if I have a good reason (hydraulic > performance, specific feature needed/wanted, similarity with an owners > other systems etc.) > > Which brings me to my question...Is there any need to be more specific > about CPVC products? I have always held the belief that CPVC is CPVC. > Provided that supplier of pipe and/or fittings maintains a UL listing > (or other listing) for their products for fire protection use, then the > parts are essentially interchangeable. Am I wrong? > > I know that Blazemaster in their literature will generally steer you > toward product mfg/suppliers that use their resin and assume the others > do the same. But I have always seen this as being the equivalent of GM > wanting me to use Genuine GM parts. > > Does anyone have any hard factual data to the contrary such as technical > bulletins etc. > > Thanks > > Paul Sincaglia > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris > Brown > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:43 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: CPVC & Seismic Bracing > > Maybe this will help > > To register click on this link https://www.krm.com/clse > > Topic: New Seismic Requirements with NFPA and IBC The topic of seismic > design has become well known to many over the past five years. And like > many, your learning experience has most likely come with a cost. The > new editions of NFPA and IBC have arrived and offer a much more > understandable process for those of us involved with fire protection > systems to apply. This seminar has been organized with condensed > step-by-step information that leads from the "when" through to the > "how". Whether you have wrestled with this before or you have not yet > experienced this process, this seminar will be valuable to both > engineers of record, sprinkler system designers and authorities of > jurisdiction. You do not want to miss this. > > > Thank you, > > Chris Brown > Fire Protection Designer, Poole Fire Protection > Office: 913.829.8650 Direct: 913.747.2056 Cell: 913.208.3600 Fax: > 913.829.8690 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:09 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: CPVC & Seismic Bracing > > Roland, > > That's exactly what I thought and tried to explain to the South Carolina > State Fire Marshall's office. They insist the piping has to be 2 1/2" or > larger. > > Matt > > > > |---------+----------------------------------------> > | | Roland Huggins | > | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>| > | | Sent by: | > | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| > | | prinkler.org | > | | 04/04/2007 12:32 PM | > | | Please respond to | > | | sprinklerforum | > |---------+----------------------------------------> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------| > | > | > | > | > | > To| > | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > | > | > cc| > | > | > | > Subject| > | Re: CPVC & Seismic Bracing > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------| > > > > > the pipe size on the branch line is when a sway brace is REQUIRED for > the branch line. That criteria does NOT eliminate the requirement to > sway brace the main by use of an offset brace thus size is immaterial > (except for the brace being listed for the size of interest). If the > brace wasn't listed for 1 inch (which it is), then as the designer, > you'd need to size the starter piece to meet the needs of the brace. > > Roland > > On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I know this was discussed recently but I don't think this specific > > point was brought up. Currently there is only one listed sway brace > > for CPVC and it is a lateral brace. Now in order to provide > > longitudinal bracing it was suggested to install a lateral brace on > > the branch line within 24 in. of the main. However if you read > > 9.3.5.3.5 it states "...for lines that are 2 1/2" and greater in > > diameter". So what do you do for a 13R system with lets say 1 1/2" > > mains and 1" branch lines? > > > > Matt Drewello > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to > which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential > and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby > notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this > message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the > sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed > in this message are those of the individual sender and may not > necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
