Terri, If they don't think sprinklers are necessary in existing hi-rise buildings and are willing to say so in a TV interview, I doubt they are "monitoring" the forum. You need to have an interest in learning and staying abreast of your "trade" to be an active part of this forum. It sounds like Roland may have correctly defined their trade in his post yesterday.
Cliff Whitfield Fire Design, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terri Leyton Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Schirmer Engineering Might be a good time for anyone from Schirmer Engineering to speak up....... Terri Simmons Leyton PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING Ph: 858-751-2930 Fax: 858-751-2933 Cell: 619-871-8450 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Slow news day Hi Jim, I didn't mention RJA because the San Diego matter only involved Schirmer, at least to the best of my knowledge. But thanks for the additional info. Would you happen to have a copy of FM's research ?. John Drucker -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Davidson Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Slow news day John, There were two fire protection engineering firms that testified for the plaintives in the Great Adventure Haunted Castle fire, one was Schirmer Engineering the other was Rolf Jensen & Associates. Years later FM did an analysis of the trailer fire using FM's software that models the trip and water delivery of the dry pipe system activation. The report's conclusion noted that it was probable that a dry pipe sprinkler system could have saved the lives of the teens killed in the fire. Please note that the report was a study and not part of any legal action related to the fire. Jim Davidson Davidson Associates 302-378-7600 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 8:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Slow news day Yes it was Schirmer Engineering The gentlemen with the most AHJ information on this is Stanley Sickels, Fire Marshal and Construction Official of the Borough of Red Bank. John Drucker Fire Protection Subcode Official Borough of Red Bank, New Jersey -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 11:51 PM To: AFSA Forum Subject: Re: Slow news day Geo: Are you sure? Is this documented? Year? City of possible publication? We may need all this and more ... Steve L. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "George Church" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:25:05 To:<[email protected]> Subject: RE: Slow news day Whoa- wasn't there a little place called GREAT ADVENTURE in NJ that had a little problem with a fire in an unsprinklered place full of funseekers, but unlike all the buildings we now must install sprinklers in, this place was- - JUST AS SAFE WITHOUT SPRINKLERS AS WITH SPRINKLERS -if my memory serves me right, coincidently, it was Schirmer Engineering that proclaimed this. Since the place was as safe without sprinklers as with them, I wonder why I kept seeing title blocks with names like "Runaway Train" etc as we retro frit the place like crazy after the fire. It was as if they hadn't read the report they paid for. Wonder why, if sprinklers wouldn't save any lives? Oh- it's the property, stupid. Can we now get sued for false advertising since all my vehicles have bumper stickers that say "sprinklers save lives"? How much would Michael Eisner have made if he'd hired a different fire consultant and not wasted all of Walt's millions sprinklering DisneyPlaces? Maybe he'd still have a job. Well, while I'm on a roll at the end of a long day, might as well tell y'all that a year or so ago we were stepping into finishing up a big home improvement place and discovered a new perfectly acceptable manner of UG flushing- you can use one 1.5" fire hose to flush a 14" UG main that's pump suction, right there in the presence of an unnamed project manager for a large FP engineering house. Guess if the sprinks aren't gonna do much, why spend money keeping the rocks outa da pump, and those big k25 orifi shouldn't plug unless they got really big rocks. Glc Wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen the video.(sigh) With friends like this within the industry, who needs the HBA or passive folks? -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 11:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Slow news day This is the at least the second time that I know of that Schirmer Engineering as been hired to oppose sprinklers. The other time was against residential sprinklers at the building code proposal stage. As we all know, PE can also stand for Prostitute Extraordinaire. Roland On May 11, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: > Wow! This guy sounds like the Home Builders Assoc. would do well > to have > him on their side in their fight against sprinklers in houses. > > Maybe the TV station cut out something and took his comments out of > context. > If not, what is he doing on the committee? Sprinklers may not help > protect > the building structure much but they will certainly protect the > occupants. > I thought that was the idea. > > And these must be extremely large units if they are going to cost > $30,000 > per unit to sprinkler. Or else you guys on the left coast must > really make > a lot of $$$! > > Maybe I'm missing something. > > Cliff Whitfield > Fire Design, Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] On Behalf Of PCE > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 6:32 PM > To: SprinklerFORUM > Subject: Slow news day > > Last night on the local newscast a segment covered the controversy > over > a proposal from the San Diego County Grand Jury to the city council > detailing the benefits of requiring the retrofit installation of fire > sprinkler > systems in existing residential high-rise buildings. There are > currently 17 > such structures in the city, and the proposal would mandate such a > change. > > The video of the segment can be found on the website of the tv station > http://video.nbcsandiego.com/player/?id=103267%5C%22: <http://video.nbcsandiego.com/player/?id=103267%5C%22> . > > It's probably a good idea to keep in mind that the licensed fire > protection > engineer you'll see in the segment is a member of the NFPA-13 > committee. > That made the following two statements somewhat hard for me to > understand: > > 1 - "If you look at the improvement with sprinklers we're not sure > it's > a big advantage." > and > 2 - "I'm pro-sprinkler, they're great, but for this application > they're > not practical or > feasible, and they probably don't make a significant difference in the > level of safety." > > Interesting to say the least. > -- > > PARSLEY CONSULTING > > Ken Wagoner, SET > > 760.745.6181 voice > > 760.745.0537 fax > >_______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum: <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > >_______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum: <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum: <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum: <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
