Scot, I agree with most of your post but the issue that we are discussing isn't from decades ago but from a TV interview with a professional from an engineering firm a few days ago regarding the necessity (or lack thereof) for sprinklering existing hi-rise buildings in downtown San Diego. If you go back to the original post and listen to the interview, the FPE states that sprinklers would not really benefit in this situation. (I'm paraphrasing from memory, which we all know isn't the best thing to do!) I believe that most of the folks in the sprinkler industry would agree that he is incorrect in his opinion and it is very detrimental to the sprinkler industry to have "professionals" make statements like that. Sprinklers do save lives and shouldn't cost "$30,000.00 per unit" even in a retrofit situation, even on the West Coast.
We all know that sprinklers work and in the case of a fire in a high rise, will save many lives. Cliff -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of å... .... Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Schirmer Engineering That fire was quite a while ago, but the people too, have long since been gone as well. Everyone makes risky, calculated, sometimes even dubious professional design decisions. I have seen authors in this thread make plenty of their share. These days there is a techno-babble name for it: "Risk Analysis". If you make a bad decision, you should pay or be punished for it, regardless of whether you are a PE -- for penis envy or a PE -- for prostitute extraordinare (french spelling omitted) or a PE -- for professional engineer. The anamoly with fire protection is, the odds of incendiary damage are so small that many of these dubious decisions will never see their trial-by-fire. The risk-based design decisions remain hidden and unnoticed to all but the professionals. And by professionals, I mean EVERY person involved in bringing a life-safety sprinkler system to commission and keeping it there. Sure there is more responsibility given to the PE, but she can not guarantee that the fitter responsibly wiped away excess cutting oil, or tightened down all the flange bolts. It is a team effort. Slander does not make the issue of personal and corporate accounability go away, and it reduces the caliber of discussion from ideas to people. Everyone (designer, contractor, inspector ) has to step up to the plate and do their individual time at bat with their own integrity regarding the sprinkler system. Rather than libelling an entire league of players for a couple of individuals' very bad judgment more than a decade ago, why don´t we stick to discussing the ideas and decisions involved in that incident, and cast stones as we should, at only those individuals whom signed and reviewed the report? This name calling and finger pointing sounds like a discreditation gambit and grab for market share, to a distant observer. One thing positive I sense coming from this thread is a need for more peer review on "performance-based" design. Needed it for quite some time. scot deal excelsior fire (pe: phonically educated :- ) As we all know, PE can also stand for Prostitute Extraordinaire. On 5/15/07, wrote: > Might be a good time for anyone from Schirmer Engineering to speak > up....... > > PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING > Ph: 858-751-2930 > Fax: 858-751-2933 > Cell: 619-871-8450 > > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:08 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Slow news day > > Hi Xxx > > I didn't mention RJA because the San Diego matter only involved Schirmer, > at least to the best of my knowledge. > > But thanks for the additional info. Would you happen to have a copy of > FM's research ?. > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
