Garth, Hence my statement that this is a "technical" problem and not a theoretical one. With that said how about solving the problem, if an alarm valve can satisfy the requirements for backflow prevention so be it.
Frankly the sprinkler industry needs to address this issue in the plumbing code. Perhaps this became an issue when traditional alarm valve installations were replaced by shotguns ? John -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Garth W. Warren Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Backflow: Sprinkler System John, I believe, at least for me, that the opposition to backflow prevention devices is that they were imposed as a remedy on systems that were not broken. Our alarm valves were the first backflow prevention devices and had a stellar track record of not only preventing any backflow but also of working properly when the fire system was actually needed. The problem was that alarm valves were not Listed as backflow preventers and therefore we fell to the chicken little concept that something terrible might someday possibly happen somewhere. Now billions are spent installing devices that, I believe, have been proven not to allow forward flow of water when needed. Evey time? Always? No, but is even once acceptable? If i recall correctly, the only way the backflow people were able to cause any cross contamination in a public water system further than 5' from the sprinkler system riser was by placing a 2x4 into the valve body to hold the clapper open. Cross-contamination through an Alarm Valve was improbable at best. Garth a fitter ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Drucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:26 AM Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System David, That would be akin to saying whats the chances of my building being involved in a fire, do I really need sprinklers ?. A building equipped with a standpipe would be one example, or perhaps where a temporary water supply connection is made via the FDC or where the fire departments SOG may include standing orders that FDC's be connected to at all times. Another thing that came to mind. The plumbing and mechanical sectors install backflow prevention as a matter of course to prevent cross contamination. Why does the fire protection sector feel the need for cross contamination should not apply to fire protection systems ? (Aside from citing the technology issues noted earlier) John Drucker -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Autry Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 9:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System Just how many FDC's get used in a fire? Almost every sprinkler saves that I read says the fire was out by the time the first responders got there, or the fire was controlled and only had to use a couple lines to put it out. I realize that high-rise fires on the left or right coast would be a different story. I've always wondered if the FDC was used and if so, why? David Autry Plans Examiner Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office 246 S. 14th Street Lincoln, NE 68508 402-471-9659 402-471-3118 fax www.sfm.ne.gov -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 8:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System Roland, Fire Departments do the damnest things, even so far as drafting from storm sewers. It all comes back to the emergency nature of fires. Once upon a time in draft I witnessed sand and seahells from a deck gun. When the operator was alerted he responded by saying that they could fix the pump later. He was correct. My community resides on a tidal river. Many road lead right up to the river. Many sprinklered buildings with FDC's are along the river where the fire department has direct unimpeded access to the river. Lastly think fire departments don't go to draft, well consider that my company did just that at a house fire last year. (Theres another member of this list who was there). It does and will happen so long as that heavy semirigid hose keeps getting installed on fire engines and drafting remains in the SOGs. John Drucker Captain Middletown Twp Fire Dept Station 8 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Backflow: Sprinkler System One of the aspects that drive an RPZ is when the fire dept draft from non-potable sources (anytime). Roland _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
