Long ago (or was it) the "shotgun riser" was a straight pipe with threaded fittings (or TOL's) for drain and such. 2 rather large check valves were installed in the underground at the connection at the city. Backflow Prevention has been around a long time. Tho more recently it seems common sense has been omitted....
R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis Living Water Fire Protection, LLC. 1160 McKenzie Rd. PO Box 877 Cantonment, FL. 32533 850-937-1850 Voice 850-937-1852 Facsimile [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of John Drucker ----- >Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 9:25 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System ----- > ----- >Garth, ----- > ----- >Hence my statement that this is a "technical" problem ----- >and not a theoretical one. With that said how about ----- >solving the problem, if an alarm valve can satisfy the ----- >requirements for backflow prevention so be it. ----- > ----- >Frankly the sprinkler industry needs to address this ----- >issue in the plumbing code. ----- > ----- >Perhaps this became an issue when traditional alarm ----- >valve installations were replaced by shotguns ? ----- > ----- >John ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Garth W. ----- >Warren ----- >Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:52 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: Re: Backflow: Sprinkler System ----- > ----- >John, I believe, at least for me, that the opposition to ----- >backflow prevention devices is that they were imposed as ----- >a remedy on systems that were not broken. ----- >Our alarm valves were the first backflow prevention ----- >devices and had a stellar track record of not only ----- >preventing any backflow but also of working properly ----- >when the fire system was actually needed. The problem ----- >was that alarm valves were not Listed as backflow ----- >preventers and therefore we fell to the chicken little ----- >concept that something terrible might someday possibly ----- >happen somewhere. ----- >Now billions are spent installing devices that, I ----- >believe, have been proven not to allow forward flow of ----- >water when needed. Evey time? ----- >Always? No, but is even once acceptable? ----- >If i recall correctly, the only way the backflow people ----- >were able to cause any cross contamination in a public ----- >water system further than 5' ----- >from the sprinkler system riser was by placing a 2x4 ----- >into the valve body to hold the clapper open. ----- >Cross-contamination through an Alarm Valve was ----- >improbable at best. ----- > ----- >Garth ----- >a fitter ----- >----- Original Message ----- ----- >From: "John Drucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ----- >To: <[email protected]> ----- >Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:26 AM ----- >Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System ----- > ----- > ----- >David, ----- > ----- >That would be akin to saying whats the chances of my ----- >building being involved in a fire, do I really need sprinklers ?. ----- > ----- >A building equipped with a standpipe would be one ----- >example, or perhaps where a temporary water supply ----- >connection is made via the FDC or where the fire ----- >departments SOG may include standing orders that FDC's ----- >be connected to at all times. ----- > ----- >Another thing that came to mind. The plumbing and ----- >mechanical sectors install backflow prevention as a ----- >matter of course to prevent cross contamination. Why ----- >does the fire protection sector feel the need for cross ----- >contamination should not apply to fire protection ----- >systems ? (Aside from citing the technology issues noted earlier) ----- > ----- >John Drucker ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of David Autry ----- >Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 9:15 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System ----- > ----- >Just how many FDC's get used in a fire? Almost every ----- >sprinkler saves that I read says the fire was out by the ----- >time the first responders got there, or the fire was ----- >controlled and only had to use a couple lines to put it ----- >out. I realize that high-rise fires on the left or right ----- >coast would be a different story. I've always wondered ----- >if the FDC was used and if so, why? ----- > ----- >David Autry ----- >Plans Examiner ----- >Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office ----- >246 S. 14th Street ----- >Lincoln, NE 68508 ----- >402-471-9659 ----- >402-471-3118 fax ----- >www.sfm.ne.gov ----- > ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of John Drucker ----- >Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 8:26 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System ----- > ----- >Roland, ----- > ----- >Fire Departments do the damnest things, even so far as ----- >drafting from storm sewers. It all comes back to the ----- >emergency nature of fires. ----- > ----- >Once upon a time in draft I witnessed sand and seahells ----- >from a deck gun. ----- >When the operator was alerted he responded by saying ----- >that they could fix the pump later. He was correct. ----- > ----- >My community resides on a tidal river. Many road lead ----- >right up to the river. ----- >Many sprinklered buildings with FDC's are along the ----- >river where the fire department has direct unimpeded ----- >access to the river. ----- > ----- >Lastly think fire departments don't go to draft, well ----- >consider that my company did just that at a house fire ----- >last year. (Theres another member of this list who was ----- >there). It does and will happen so long as that heavy ----- >semirigid hose keeps getting installed on fire engines ----- >and drafting remains in the SOGs. ----- > ----- >John Drucker ----- >Captain ----- >Middletown Twp Fire Dept ----- >Station 8 ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Roland Huggins ----- >Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 10:04 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: Re: Backflow: Sprinkler System ----- > ----- >One of the aspects that drive an RPZ is when the fire ----- >dept draft from non-potable sources (anytime). ----- > ----- >Roland ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
