Well now you'll understand why I've included backflow assemblies on
systems even when the local water jurisdiction does not.  I hope I am
allaying some of the nay-sayers by including backflow test outlets sized
for the maximum demand flow.  At least there is a means of testing these
devices.

For those of you contractors out there who are normally in reactive mode
(not involved with the A/E team), maybe you should start making proposal
requests for backflow test outlets.  You either get more work, or you
have a paper trail in case you need to say "I told you so."  Plus you
might make the specifying engineer look bad, which is always good when
they deserve it...

MAS
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George
Church
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System

Or when the jurisdiction starts requiring retrofit, did you instruct
bidders
(and verify, if contracted) to leave enough cushion for them to be added
in
the future, since you could reasonably anticipate at some point the
jurisdiction would or could leave commonsense behind and initiate
compliance
with the Backflow Manufacturer's Full Employment Act ?

It's a very good practice to ask yourself how your defense would sound
in
court. If you sound like you're handing them a gun and ammo, not just
ammo,
maybe you want to re-think your decision. 

Some real smart people in this industry instructed me that if you
approach
each job like it will end up in court, it likely won't.

glc

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark
Sornsin
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Backflow: Sprinkler System

How about if you're hired as the engineer of record.  

Knowing what all of you know about backflow assemblies and the arguments
for and against: would you specify one where it is not required by the
local code?  We do work on one side of a river where they are required;
on the other side they are not.  Do I spec them on the one side only?

If I don't specify backflows where they are not required by code, am I
as an engineer exposing myself to suit if one of those "unprotected"
systems should be involved with contamination of the water supply?
Wouldn't the first thing the attorneys ask me be "How can you omit this
important device when you already specify them for half of your projects
and know the benefits of the protection?"  

I guess my answer would be "I thought the likelihood of actual water
supply contamination was so small that that it was better to save the
owner a couple grand, improve the system hydraulics and improve the
system reliability by omitting the device where it was not required by
code."  

Maybe that line would save my butt in court...  (?)

Mark A. Sornsin, PE 
Fire Protection Engineer 
Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 
Fargo, ND  
701.280.8591
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom
McMahon
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Backflow: Sprinkler System

Your right George, SOME DO! And of the whole list you just gave I know
that 
you don't, except for the bonds part. We don't, and I know that the
majority 
certainly don't do all of those things, or may have done one of them on
some 
occasion, but not as a general practice. In general I think our trade is

growing more aware of the risk's each and every one of these actions 
involves.
Once again time to than AFSA NFPA, and even NFSA (oh yes and this
forum), 
for the educational opportunities they give their members and everyone
else. 
Ever heard the saying "Live and Learn"? Maybe it should have been "Keep 
Learning to earn a Living"or "Learning is Life" or "Live, Learn , 
Survive"(substitute for survive any of the following; Prosper, Succeed, 
Realize, Fulfill, "Where is Steve with that West Coast vocabulary")
Thom McMahon
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