My Friends, Thanks for your all great help, your comments were very helpful Chris & Charles. I will contact Mr. Wysocki, I know he has been working on gaseous suppression system for NFPA & SFPE. I also contacted VDS (www.vds.de) and they sent me a 3 months full trial version of their HFC-227ea hydraulic calculation program, I think I can leran more testing their program. I will give you un update! Thanks, Reza
"Ford, Charles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Reza, Siemens FM-200 systems are designed & built by a fire protection firm in New Jersey called PEMALL. They are a friendly group who might have the answers you need if Tom Wysocki doesn't work out. Burton Ford SET, CFPS Member AFAA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 267-487-1000 Fax 267-487-1010 This e-mail transmission contains information that is intended to be confidential and privileged. If you receive this e-mail and you are not a named addressee you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please delete and otherwise erase it and any attachments from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. Thank you. Cintas Corporation -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reza Esmaeili Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: A Question HFC-227ea System Hydraulic Calculation Dear Charles, Actually a client has purchased some pre-engineered FM-200 systems from Siemens, Cerberus Division about 7 years before, but they have not install it until now, and insisting of having a hand hydraulic calculation first, I know that calculation of an engineered system is not possible due it's complexity and should be done by a listed computer program, and even NFPA 2001 doesn't contain any formulas for calculating flow of clean agents. But for a simple pre-engineered FM-200 system, while each cylinder has only one nozzle, maybe hand calculation is possible, I know it is a bit funny, but I have to do it! can anyone help? Thanks for your attention, Reza "Ford, Charles" wrote: I suggest you contact Tom Wysocki at the following e-dress. You can check out his bio at www.gsifire.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am curious why you feel that commercial UL listed programs are not adequate. The calculations are only valid within certain specific parameters which the programs monitor such as: Tee splits % of pipe fill Velocity Nozzle pressures Liquid run out time. Other things? Burton Ford SET, CFPS Member AFAA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 267-487-1000 Fax 267-487-1010 This e-mail transmission contains information that is intended to be confidential and privileged. If you receive this e-mail and you are not a named addressee you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please delete and otherwise erase it and any attachments from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. Thank you. Cintas Corporation -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reza Esmaeili Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: A Question HFC-227ea System Hydraulic Calculation Dear Burton, Thanks for your answer,I am doing manual hydraulic calculations for carbon dioxide and Halon 1301 systems based on NFPA-12 and NFPA-12A easily but NFPA-2001 has not stated enough information to determine nozzles pressure and flow rate for a HCF-227ea System, just I can calculate the required mass of FM-200! I know that now a days UL listed computer softwares are able do to a complete hydraulic calculations, but actually these softwares are also based on some formulas and equations. The more I look for, the less I find! I would like to ask if it is possible to do hydraulic calculations of a engineered FM-200 System manually? Or the formulas are secrets and only software owners like Hughes associates have it!? If NFPA has the formulas for hydraulic calculations of HCF-227ea Systems, why doesn't NFPA publish them? Thanks for your kind help Regards, Reza "Ford, Charles" wrote: Reza, There are many issues with your question and statements. NFPA 12A is [more accurately was] for Halon 1301 ONLY. NFPA 2001 describes the calculation method for FM-200 although I'm not sure they can be duplicated by normal people. We have all been disappointed by FM-200 Calcs but I see no other solution other than the specific manufacturers UL listed computer program(s). Burton Ford NICET IV Special Hazards, CFPS Member AFAA [EMAIL PROTECTED] 267-487-1000 Fax 267-487-1010 This e-mail transmission contains information that is intended to be confidential and privileged. If you receive this e-mail and you are not a named addressee you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the consent of the sender and that doing so is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please delete and otherwise erase it and any attachments from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. Thank you. Cintas Corporation -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reza Esmaeili Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: A Question HFC-227ea System Hydraulic Calculation Dear Friends, I know this forum is not the proper place for asking this questions, but I am completely disappointed on hydraulic calculation of a FM-200 system. I would be thankful if you can answer my question or help me how th solve my problem. My question is as below: To do hydraulic calculation of a FM-200 600Psi, system first I want to calculate the percent of FM-200 in piping to be able to find out working pressure, there is a formula in NFPA 12A to determine percent of agent in piping, which is k1/[(W/V)+ K2 ] but there is nothing about this issue in NFPA 2001, I want to know if I can calculate percent of HFC-227ea in piping based on the same formula which is in NFPA 12 A, can I use the same K1 & K2 Constants of Halon 1301 for HFC-227ea? If not, how can I calculate? I don't know if I am going the right way, I was looking for a worked example but I couldn't find, can anybody help me? Thanks in advance. Regards, Reza --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! 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