FPE's or other FP related designers generally have nothing to do with the 
selection of smoke/heat vents.  It is in most cases driven by the architect who 
is trying to comply with a building code directive for a building of a certain 
size, construction type and occupancy.  It could easily be an open 
manufacturing are or a warehouse area.   The determination of whether they are 
needed or not in almost every case doesn't even take into consideration what 
type of sprinklers will be designed and used.  The code requirement directing 
the use of vents is determined many times before the sprinkler designer or FPE 
is ever invited to the dance.   

Doors are for EGRESS, not ingress.  

So whenever this scenario arises it's time to get with the Underwriter, the 
Owner and the local AHJ an come to some sort of agreement as to what to do that 
will satisfy all parties.  And it ain't always the same song for each dance.




Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lg.com


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of å... ....
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 2006 IFC - Smoke and Heat Vents

If the doors are meant for fire fighter INGRESS, then what does it matter if 
smoke vents are eliminated, since we are presuming then, that the doors 
required for occupant egress are satisfied.

If the doors spacing is required for occupant EGRESS, and the larger door 
spacing that is allowed when vents are present-- is maintained after smoke vens 
are eliminating,

then it STILL should not matter,
because in MOST instances, these smoke vents are to operate AFTER the ESFR 
sprinkers, and usually for fire fighter salvage and overall operations.

The issue of smoke venting in large, single story, open plan buildings is one 
of smoke and mirrors, and frankly i think far too many FPE's use it for mental 
masturbation to make themselves look (or feel) useful at the design meeting.
While it may be a CLOSE call in some fires, I have yet to hear of OCCUPANTS not 
successfully evacuating from some large fires in these types of occupancies.  I 
will gladly stand corrected.

I know SOME fire departments out there must have SOP's on smoke venting of 
large, single-story, open plan structures.  I would like to hear from them what 
are their SOP's:

  1.  the time they desire for the building to clear of
       smoke via smoke venting in still air
  2.  the time they desire for the building to clear of
       smoke via smoke venting in a 15 mph wind
  3.  their intention (if any) to use smoke venting as a life
       safety tool for the egress of OCCUPANTS,  (i
       realize it is used for search and rescue, but that
       is past the point in the timeline where self evacuation
       is possible).
  4.  how many vents and which vents they intend to
       open (upwind, downwind), and which doors they
       plan to open in concert.

I ask for these smoke venting SOP's to make my designs
more harmonious with fire department practices.   After all,
what is the purpose of these vents?

  a.   interruption of normal, tested and listed sprinkler activation
  b.   increased sales of a building feature that is the equivalent
        to the oversized starter first contemplated for the Model-T?
  c.   self evacuation of occupants
  d.   search and rescue for the fire department
  e.   salvage and overall for the fire deparment

Yes, I am being a little sarcastic, but sincerely though.


scot deal
excelsior fire engineering
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