George: I can relate the the FL guy. I purchased a new home last year. I pushed with the builder's sales guys and job super to let me install sprinklers in the house during the construction phase. I even offered to sign a waiver that they would not be held liable for any parts of the system, or any damage attributed to the system. However, I was told that the builder would not let me put in a piping system until I took full ownership (aka - closing) of the house. I spoke with a customer of mine who was going to do the system for me. He stated that because we only had a single story and plenty of attic room, he didn't think it would be worth it to continue the fight. They just retrofit the system in place. I am in AZ where freezing is not an issue. It ended up taking about 48 labor hours instead of what should have been about 24 labor hours to put it in. I was able to have it installed after closing, but before we moved in furniture. Thankfully, the guys did a great job and you couldn't even tell they had been there working, except the little white plates in the ceiling :-)
Had we had a situation where the system would not have been as easily retrofitted, I would have been all over the news and at every town council meeting to get things changed so the builder would let me install during construction. I can truly say that having a residential fire sprinkler system in the home does provide a huge "sense of security" that I really did not anticipate. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: RB-64, Home Builders Assn. Letter Oh, believe me I understand your predicament. I'm not saying all spkr geeks like us HAVE to have spkrs in our homes. My point was to NOT have a great oratory defused by the simple question I'd ask if I was a home builder deadset (pun intended) on torpedoing a spkr guy's testimony. It shows you walk the walk (or live in a new house). I'd heard a horror story about a very dedicated spkr guy in FL that fought and lost a battle with his new home builder to allow him to install res AS in his new house. Mine were in when I bought a house from a spkr guy when we also bought his spkr co assets. Otherwise it'd still be in rough-in phase, and I'd be divorced. Heck, it'd be in design, that black hole where jobs go until just before POJ (pipe on job) when all of the sudden the job emerges, and simultaneously goes to approval, coordination and fab. Maybe not in that sequence :) since it takes a week to get the fab done :) I'd guess if you were to build today, they'd let you install anything if they just got a chance to build a house. Hope we can all pull together behind our new president and get this all back on track soon. glc -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justin Reid Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: RB-64, Home Builders Assn. Letter "To add credibility, its imperative that if you're going to speak for residential AS in SFDs, you live in a sprinklered house." In response to the above statement. I recently purchased a home which did not have fire sprinklers installed. I have not (yet) installed fire sprinklers in my home; but, I support the passing of residential fire sprinklers in the IRC. The IRC will only require sprinkler installation in NEW single family dwellings (SFDs). It is much more cost effective to install fire sprinklers in new construction when all of the walls are open and all areas of the home are easily accessible. The monetary cost difference for retrofitting a house with sprinklers is sometimes more than double the cost to install them when the house is being constructed. Take my case for example. The long-term plan for my house is to install fire sprinklers. However, when I do, it is going to be a royal pain in the B. There are areas where I am going to have to pull out drywall and (because I have a two-story house) tear up the floor in some areas as well. After all the floor repairs, drywall dust cleanup and painting is done, I will have fire sprinklers in my house. I could see how this would deter your everyday household from retrofitting fire sprinklers into their home. It is for this reason that the new code requirement IS so important. If the fire sprinklers had been installed when my house was being constructed, then their much lower cost would have been lumped into my 30 year loan. Now, the installation will cost more and would be on a separate loan. Based on this, I think I am still credible for wanting this requirement to pass even though I do not have them in my existing home. My support of the new requirement is so that future homeowners will not have to wrestle with the retrofit decision versus having them installed with the original construction. Respectfully submitted, Justin D. Reid, P.E. Project Engineer RLH Fire Protection 468 N. Camden Dr. #290L Beverly Hills, CA 90210 Office: (310) 601-3013 Cell: (213) 798-0251 Fax: (866) 871-2237 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: RB-64, Home Builders Assn. Letter I know Mark Richter from the Penn BOC, plus he's 3rd party AHJ on a good bit of our work. My understanding was that the PennBOC group was going to turn down any outside funding to avoid conflict of interest; there was sufficient doubt that the rules covering conflict of interest forbade it, they erred on the side of caution- or at least in the email discussion prior to the trip. >From our perspective as knowledgeable sprinkler guys, its tough to watch people continue to die in SFDs when we have the ability to stop it. However, its tough for others to believe us when we say its because we believe in protecting life and property from fire with sprinklers that we support residential sprinklers- why would they believe us? Does this mean the home builders believe in people dying in their homes? Don't burnt down homes also create additional work for the builders, so a like doubt should fall on them as well. To add credibility, its imperative that if you're going to speak for residential AS in SFDs, you live in a sprinklered house. Imagine giving the most impassioned and persuasive speech, swaying those you need, and then having the opposing home builder ask if you sprinklered your own house? You'd lose all credibility if you had to say "No. Heck, costs too much and might flood the place." glc -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terri Leyton Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RB-64, Home Builders Assn. Letter I've been trying to send a post with attachments and it would appear to be too big for our servers. So, let's try this. Below is a letter from the Home Builders Assn. in Harrisburg. Note the big difference. They offer travel assistance if you share the view that "fire sprinklers should not be mandatory". To my knowledge, the IRC Residential Sprinkler Coalition was very careful not to qualify folks who received travel assistance. Never was anyone asked if they were voting yes or no on any proposed code change. If you want a clean copy of the documents, send me an email off forum. T Terri Simmons Leyton PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING 8849-B Complex Drive San Diego, CA 92123 ------------------------------------------------------------- Ph: 858-751-2930 - ext. 101 Fax: 858-751-2933 Cell: 619-871-8450 "Once every man, woman and child realizes and accepts in daily life the responsibility for simple fire prevention measures, death, injury and destruction by fire will be substantially reduced." Percy Bugbee, NFPA, 1947 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ NOD32 3604 (20081111) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
