Thanks for all of the excellent feedback. Steve Kowkabany, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Neptune Fire Protection Engineering LLC 616 Davis Street Neptune Beach, FL 32266 904-652-4200 Phone 904-212-0868 Fax
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Ideal World - What info would you want from a PE As a contractor minimum I'd want comply with 13 and identification of materials, methods or details that are different. I'm assuming the arch has given enough info you (us contractors) can figure out the LH rooms vs. the OH rooms. Also assumed you have at least a floor, ceiling and structural plan. For example 13, with no sched 5 pipe, center of tile. Really design build. This would cover 95% of projects. Even an ME should be able to pull this off. For storage I'd add a commodity class and storage configuration detail. Don't need a density if it's readily in 13. Class III, 16' high, single and double row racks, wood pallets, no shelves for example. FPE here to set the class and should know the key terms like single row vs. multi-row or encapsulated. For certain customers with special density requirement more than 13 specify a density. We really should be able to deal with a spec that says for example 13, with sched 10 or greater pipe, center of tile, sales floor .35925/2300, room 123 - .2794735/946, rest per 13. Even an ME should be able to pull this off assuming the insurance or owner spec'ed the odd density. That should cover about 99% of projects. It should really be that simple. Maybe 2 - 8.5" x 11" pages at most. The 1% will require things like routing, densities, odd issues like water curtains other than floor openings, Quell, Viking Anti-freeze, schemes for airplane hangers, flammable liquids, special zoning, pre-action, deluge. Here no less than an FPE. Now as an engineer of course the minimum should be your #9 or #10 even for a 2,500 sq.ft. office fully non-combustible construction. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Kowkabany Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Ideal World - What info would you want from a PE Since we're on the topic of contract documents, what do the contractors out there want to see as an ideal level of detail from the PE on plans and specs? I'll throw out some examples based on what I have seen ranging from the minimum (which puts the entire design onus on the contractor) to the maximum (full-blown layout). 1) No design docs - just "design per NFPA 13, 16, 20, 24, etc." 2) Hazard classifications of all areas within the building including densities to be used, size of remote area, etc. - including design criteria for special situations like dry storage of boats, special hazards, and other storage scenarios 3) System type specified - wet, dry, antifreeze, etc. 4) Water supply totally worked out including a coordinated underground design, backflow preventer location and type, and recent flow test info 5) Code references identified for sources of requirements from local building codes and fire codes 6) Fire alarm system interface details 7) Structural coordination details such as locations of mains or standpipes will need to penetrate floors or firewalls 8) Partial layout - such as the location of just mains, or just heads, or just some system components that are critical to the owner or architect 9) Full blown layout and hydraulic calcs (similar to what white paper level of detail) 10) Full blown layout plus stocklisting - contractor just fabricates components and assemblies and entire design responsibility is on the engineer In an ideal world, where every engineer and contractor had NICET 4 knowledge and experience, what would be the ideal level of detail for you as contractors? Does too much information restrict your ability to be creative and bid competitively, or would it be better to have completely engineered drawings to fabricate and install from. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks, Steve Kowkabany, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Neptune Fire Protection Engineering LLC 616 Davis Street Neptune Beach, FL 32266 904-652-4200 Phone 904-212-0868 Fax _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
