Of note - when we were trying to get schools sprinklered here in CA a few years back (SB575), we changed the argument from "save your kids" to "protect your local meeting facility" and were then successful. Ah, legislature, such a treat in California.
Happy New Year to All! T Terri Simmons Leyton PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING Ph: 858-751-2930 - ext. 101 Fax: 858-751-2933 Cell: 619-871-8450 "When you walk into a public place, have an exit strategy. And keep in mind, the best way out may not be the way in." www.haveanexitstrategy.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 6:21 PM To: AFSA Forum Subject: Re: another fire - this will be interesting All good points, but I haven't seen anybody address the most signifcant issue yet, that being interruption of operations and the lack of financial resources within school districts to capitalize the reconstruction and re-equipping of facilities lost to fire. Nearly all fires in E-occupancies occur in off hours or when school buildings are being used for other than school business. Vandalism and arson are the two most likely causes of such fires if I recall correctly, the only difference being intent. So life loss is hardly the overriding concern, especially with all the attention given to egress in the codes (age dependent in many cases) and fire drills during the school year. More and more school districts are dependent on the revenues they get from non-district uses, such as churches, community meetings, fairs, sales, sports tourneys, etc., etc. And they are generally either under- and/or self-insured. Some have reinsurance or so-called excess lines, but many others don't and these fiscal pressures are worsening, not improving. The potential compounding of costs from lost revenue streams, deductibles, reconstruction cost overruns, added to the cost of temporary facilities that might require their own infrastructure, could stagger even large municipal districts, especially in "these" trying times. Sprinklers are the most potent insurance against these interruptions and losses without question. I hear what you're saying Scot, but I think this is one of those situations where statistics don't tell enough of the story. Steve L. Back home after our glamorous New Years Eve in Aspen, CO Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Ron Greenman" <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:05:01 To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: another fire - this will be interesting Good point so far overlooked. There's also the dubious "saved foundation" success that may have not been worth the risk of going into harm's way. And no one has brought up the environmental advantages of sprinklers--less smoke, less destroyed building materials to dispose of, less dirty water to process and, of course, less water used overall. And the Scottsdale less public money spent on firefighting infrastructure (I suspect the savings in mains, hydrants, fire stations, apparatus and firefighters is way more than a wash in fully sprinklered, planned communities than the cost of sprinklering schools). On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dave <[email protected]> wrote: > Since we are offering up various thoughts and theories on the general > application of sprinklers ..... Regardless of how much egress time is > allegedly available or occupant ability to respond or even construction > materials & methods - there still is a fire in a building - Presuming we > get everyone out safely and that eliminates the 'life safety need for > sprinklers' will we then NOT call the fire department to respond?? > > Once there's a fire in a building there is another completely real life > hazard in play - the responding emergency personnel. Some may enter the > building and be very close to harm's way and others may respond and have > ancillary functions - traffic control, EMS, crowds etc. Regardless of the > specifics we can generally agree that a fire in a non-sprinklered building > will be larger than the same fire in a sprinklered building. It's not > always the fire but medical emergencies or trips & falls that create the > threat of harm. The larger the fire the greater its duration and intensity > - all of which increase exposure and life safety risk to responders. > > Personally I don't get behind the non-combustible and limited or low fuel > load argument as a valid application of sprinkler omission. Maybe thats > just my narrow focus or perhaps its because I've been to alot bigger fires > in non-sprinklered buildings than sprinklered buildings. The closer you get > to the gun - the bigger the bullet. > > Thanks & Happy New Year > Dave P. > Fireman first and always. >_______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum <http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3733 (20090102) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3739 (20090105) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
