Forest, Fat, short systems with fire pumps like you'd find in tire warehouse. Sometimes jockeys can't keep up with expansion and contraction between day and night. Took a long time to figure this out since I got the call after the trip rather than before. If you want to get real fancy you can use an automatic air release from a fire pump. I doubt though that that would be a listed application. George's reasons also.
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Forest Wilson <[email protected]> wrote: > What advantage is there to venting the air? Other than response time? > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "George Church" <[email protected]> > > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:12:12 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: statistics > > > Nothing fancy, a 1" ball valve; or an ITC-type set up if you want to get > fancy and run it out, we don't always. > > Potter has an auto air release you could also use. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ergo > Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:02 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: statistics > > George, > > You have a way to bleed the air off of the system at the high point? This > sounds like a good idea. Cold you explain some more on how to make this > happen? > > Thanks, > > > Ergo > > > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 8:38 AM, George Church <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Venus and Mars. I raise hypothetical questions, you hunter-gatherers > answer >> the question instead of pursuing the issue of statistics :) and how to > find >> them. Quite a change from the suggester of a group hug:) >> >> I agree on the BFP, MIC, and although we often have the ITC on a riser >> manifold, we generally have a way to bleed the air off the high point to >> avoid false signals. >> >> Good point on calculating the Expected Value, taking the frequency a step >> further and including impact. >> >> glc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris >> Cahill >> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:02 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: statistics >> >> But if you are doing a risk analysis you are forgetting the outcome side. >> For example, failure of a BFP to protect the public in theory could be >> catastrophic to many if not all on the water supply. Failure of a BFP in > a >> fire should only affect one building. On the theoretical side some may die >> from the fire and/or billions of $ lost but it ain't getting a whole city >> sick or contaminating an aquifer used by 10's of millions. So the rates >> alone are irrelevant. You need to take risk and multiply it by loss then >> you have the answer on which way to go. Don't get me wrong BFP's are a >> bunch of hooey. >> >> 1st question - about 0 for both, BFP's are a waste of money in the first >> place. >> >> 2nd - MIC is an issue we need to or will be dealing with more often. >> Remember ESF only seems at this point to be an Allied problem. I vote > treat >> the MIC. >> >> 3rd - off the end gets some/most air out reducing false alarms and >> eliminating some air/water interface rusting. MIC coatings help with the >> added oxygen in the water. I vote end. >> >> Chris Cahill, P.E. >> Fire Protection Engineer >> Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. >> >> 763-658-4483 >> 763-658-4921 fax >> >> Email: [email protected] >> >> Mail: P.O. Box 69 >> Waverly, MN 55390 >> >> Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW >> Waverly, MN 55390 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George >> Church >> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 9:15 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: statistics >> >> Just as we recently discussed that we don't know how many heads a year are >> installed, or how many have been installed in the past 100+ years, when >> discussing unexpected activations, statistics of some order of magnitude >> would be helpful in numerous other things. >> >> Which occurs more frequently, failure of a backflow to protect the public >> supply, or failure of a backflow to allow full forward flow of water to a >> sprinkler system when needed? >> >> Is the possibility of MIC greater than the likelihood of ESF from MIC >> coatings? This would aid us in deciding, on systems comprised of combo >> steel >> and CPVC, if we want to use uncoated pipe (more susceptible to MIC) or > risk >> Environmental Stress Fractures? >> >> Is it better to run the ITC off the riser and limit the new oxygen into > the >> system, or run it off the tail end and check for blockage? >> >> There are countless other items we have no data upon which to base our >> decisions. Our best guesses may be completely wrong- guess our batting >> average would be no better than 50-50, and likely the answer may be based >> on >> something more important but not considered. >> >> glc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: George Church [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:07 AM >> To: '[email protected]' >> Subject: RE: Fire marshall >> >> Just as a plumber would assume testing a sprinkler backflow is limited to >> the backflow portion of the test, not aware of the forward flush we're > more >> concerned about. >> >> glc >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
