No sweat and true. Alarm guys afraid to flow water/sprinkler guys
afraid to set off an alarm. If'n you cain't do da otha guy's job right
them don't do it a t'all. Since you went this way I recognized that
many would focus on the procedure and I was addressing the results.
Together we all make an awesome team. We should form a national
all-stars company and immediately go broke while we ponde the issues
while the trunk slammers do the work. Scary! Abort! Abort! Forget the
idea.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 6:01 PM, John Drucker <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ron,
>
> I felt compelled to point out the code requirements. Unlike your analogy
> there are those that actually test waterflow switch and deem it a vane type
> waterflow test by merely moving the actuator arm couple with sprinkler
> contractors who are afraid of tripping the building fire alarm by blocking
> the movement of the actuator arm. Just wanted to make sure no one thought
> otherwise.
>
> Sincerely
>
> John Drucker
> Fire Protection Subcode Official
> Red Bank, NJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Concurrent Testing
>
> John,
>
> I was just throwing out hypotheticals and not intending to be the
> prophet. My point was that testing is for a purpose beyond itself and
> before deciding that two tests are equivalent you have to determine
> what each is looking for. Maybe the same thing, maybe the same thing
> in part and maybe totally different things. A case in point would be
> "a backflow test" which means exactly opposite things depending on
> whether you're the sprinkler guy or the backflow guy. Procedures, as
> you've shown, can help define the test and certainly proscribes the
> procedure. Perhaps I should have stayed away from 72 and 25 and just
> stuck to my light analogy. Are we testing for light (does it occur or
> not)? Are we testing to see if the bulb is in good order? Are we
> testing to see if electricity gets to the socket? Are we testing the
> electrical operation of the switch? Or are we just testing to see if
> the lever moves from down to up when pushed? I know every morning when
> I operate my light switch whether or not the interior BPA system is up
> to speed. Back a few decades ago we accidently tested what would
> happen should a cascading overload occur in the Northeast due to the
> failure of an overloaded shunt relay. Now that was a test.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 2:24 PM, John Drucker <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> 2007 NFPA-72 Table 10.4.2.2(i) Test Methods
>> Mechanical, electrosonic, or pressure-type waterflow device
>> Water shall be flowed through an inspector's test connection indicating
> the
>> flow of water equal to that from a single sprinkler of the smallest
> orifice
>> size installed in the system for wet-pipe systems, or an alarm test bypass
>> connection for dry-pipe, pre-action, or deluge systems in accordance with
>> NFPA 25, Standard for the Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of
>> Water-Based Fire Protection Systems.
>>
>> 2007 NFPA-25 5.3.3.3
>> Testing the waterflow alarms on wet pipe systems shall be accomplished by
>> opening the inspector's test connection.
>>
>> 2007 NFPA-25 5.3.3.3.1
>> Where freezing weather conditions or other circumstances prohibit use of
> the
>> inspector's test connection, the bypass connection shall be permitted to
> be
>> used.
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>> John Drucker
>> Fire Protection Subcode Official
>> Red Bank, NJ
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Ron Greenman
> at home....
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-- 
Ron Greenman
at home....
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