George, Communication is communication. Content over context, especially here. I'll defer to the fact that Winston Churchill had a far greater mastery of the English language than I and here is what he had to say regarding a similar topic: "Not ending sentences with prepositions is nonsense up with which I will not put." 'Nuff said.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 8:33 AM, George Church <[email protected]> wrote: > 70% of the failures attributable to improperly closed valves is what I > recall, don't know that we hit 97% but it wouldn't surpise me. > I also recall 70% with 2 heads, 90-some% with 4 heads or less controlling > fires. I'd email Jim Lake, staff liason for both 13 and 25- as close to > applicable standards for the study as I can think of. > > Sorry to end a sentence with a preposition, Ron. > > glc > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:15 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: technical issue > > NFPA did a report about 3-5 years ago on the topic of failures. My summary > is if the valve is open and no one interferes with the system after the fire > starts for all systems the failure rate is very, very tiny like to the > extent it happens but isn't something we need to really worry about. KEEP > THE DAMN VALVE OPEN! It's even divided by occupancy. LH are even smaller > failure rate, storage and high hazard were more but still ridiculously low. > This is the source of George's 70% comment but I don't recall the number. I > thought it was like 97%. Or maybe 97% success and of the 3% failure 70% are > from closed valves which leaves 0.9% of all systems would be successful if > the valve was open. Who ever reads it please remind me. > > They, NFPA, also have save data from what the fire departments report. > That's about the best you can get on that. And I'll tell you right now even > FD's under report sprinkler saves even when they know about them. Less > paper work is the motivator here. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: technical issue > > I'd suggest NFPA as the best source for this. Problem is, there is no > nationwide clearinghouse recording this data like our friends Down Under > have, so many of our "saves" are buried on page 72 of the newspaper, as in > "Sprinkler system floods building" and in the last para they mention- oh, > there was a fire.... but they ignore that the building was saved. > > Another source would be FM Global, or other major risk insurers. > > I'm trying to recall where I read that 70% of fires spkrs failed to control > were caused by improperly closed valves- NFPA source, don't recall where it > was published, tho. > > Along that line of thought, tho- when PA came out of the early 80's BOCA and > into the I-Codes world in April, 2004, I asked L&I if they were intending to > require compliance with #25 via IBC ref to 13 ref to 25; the answer was that > the intent of the legislature was specifically NOT to require any ITM with > the new Uniform Construction Code based on IBC. (sigh) > > glc > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:25 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: technical issue > > You guys are great, sometimes abrupt, sometime too silly, but great. I > appreciate and enjoy most of the forum...Thanks, > > I need to know if anyone has statistics that show any data related to > sprinkler system failure due to poor maintenance - for a small in house > class I am doing btw. > > Thanks for your help. > > > Greg McGahan > Operations Manager > > Living Water Fire Protection > 1160 McKenzie Road > P.O. Box 877 > Cantonment, Florida 32533 > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > [email protected] > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
