I would determine what codes have been adopted in the jurisdiction. Then find out total quantities of the combustible and ask for MSDS.Then check codes to see how much combustibles can be stored in a single control area. Depending on the quantities you may not be able to store common combustibles (pallets) near the liquids. Foam sounds like an expensive alternative instead of ESFR sprinklers. Tom Reinhardt Wheeling Fire Inspector 2 Community Boulevard Wheeling,IL 60090 phone 847-499-9067
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Storage of idle wooden pallets and hi-ex foam Just because the paint contains combustible products doesn't mean you would need foam. As far as the pallets, building a covered area and store them outside away from any buildings. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Frans Stoop Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 5:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Storage of idle wooden pallets and hi-ex foam OK, I see. I have to elaborate a little on this. The discussion was caused by the case of a client who has a warehouse full of pallets with paint stored in racks. The paint contains combustible liquids. The client wanted to be able to move his racks freely around in the warehouse and doesnot want in-rack sprinklers. He might want to change the layout of the racks from one day to the other. That's why he choose total flooding hi-ex foam and payed the higher price. In that given situation the question came up what he should do with his stacks of idle pallets. Can he safely store high stacks of idle pallets in that same warehouse? Must he limit the idle pallets in the hall to small stacks only and store the bulk of idle pallets elsewhere? Btw, you might want to see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK46hFMpetI (Not all the warehouses like this have hi-ex foam; the adjacent warehouses are sprinklered.) Frans Stoop TOS architecture & fire protection Netherlands <[email protected]> Tel. +31-24-324 0112 At 11:57 23-11-2009 -0600, you wrote: >Is there a reason that you would prefer to use hi-ex foam instead of >sprinklers only? > >Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP >Sales Engineer >Alliance Fire Protection >*Licensed in KS & MO > >913.888.0647 ph >913.888.0618 f >913.927.0222 cell >www. AFPsprink.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Frans >Stoop >Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:50 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Storage of idle wooden pallets and hi-ex foam > >Dear colleagues, > >The 2 questions below caused some discussion in my professional environment: > >For Palletized, Solid Piled, Bin Boxes, or Shelf Storage NFPA 13 - 2007 >paragraph 14.6 and 15.5, both tell us: > >"High Expansion Foam - Reduction to Ceiling Density. >A reduction in ceiling density to one-half that required for Class I >through Class IV commodities, idle pallets, or plastics shall be >permitted without revising the design area, but the density shall be no >less than 0.15 gpm/ft2 (6.1 mm/min)." > >For Rack Storage of Class I Through Class IV Commodities Stored Over 25 >ft (7.6 m) in Height paragraph 16.3.5.1 tells us: > >"Where high-expansion foam systems are used for storage over 25 ft (7.6 >m) high up to and including 35 ft (10.7 m) high, they shall be used in >combination with ceiling sprinklers. The maximum submergence time for >the high-expansion foam shall be 5 minutes for Class I, Class II, or >Class III commodities and 4 minutes for Class IV commodities." > >Paragraph 12.12.2.2 tells us how to protect idle plastic pallets by the >combination of hi-ex foam and sprinklers. > >Nothing in section 12.12.1 about idle wooden pallets and hi-ex foam. >Questions: >- Can high stacks or rack storage of idle wooden pallets be protected >by the combination of hi-ex foam and sprinklers? >- Can of idle wooden pallets be protected by hi-ex foam without sprinklers? > >My opinion is that hi-ex foam only (without >sprinklers) will not extinguish a fire in high stacks or rack storage >of idle wooden pallets, because wooden pallets contain a lot of air by >themselves and the foam will not penetrate inside the stacks. The foam >will only envelop the complete stacks but will not prevent the air >(oxygen) inside the stacks from reaching the wood. >Foam, however, may hinder the fire from jumping from one stack or rack >to another, when sprinklers do their extinguishing job. > >Please share your opinion. > > >Frans Stoop >TOS architecture & fire protection >Netherlands <[email protected]> >Tel. +31-24-324 0112 >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email >to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. 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