Good idea, if only sprinklers were for life safety. Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: pull stations More reliable also which is probably why the AHJ wants the electrics to be monitored. What if you use a normally closed, continuous duty solenoid so that on loss of power the system floods. Failsafe. On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 5:55 AM, Greg McGahan <[email protected]> wrote: > Probably, but it was not my choice. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:36 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > Would pneumatic release be simpler? 1/2" galv can't be all that different > than conduit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:24 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > UNLESS, the AHJ requires the wiring to be monitored. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:22 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > That being the case I'd have to say that those pull stations have nothing to > do with NFPA 72. You wouldn't need to supervise the PA wiring. I've had > this type of scenario played out many times in unheated process buildings. > We typically use dry pipe valves, it's just simpler. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:22 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > This is a horse of a different color. It is a 9 story Motel with 2 levels of > PG underneath. The PG is approx double the footprint of the upper levels and > above the 2nd level of parking there is an outdoor pool deck 150' long or > so. There is also one stubby stairwell that goes from the 1st level of PG > to the 2nd level and stops. The AHJ required a hose valve in the stubby > stair and one on the Pool Deck. Since both of these Valves are exposed to > freezing temps, the AHJ wanted a Non-Interlock PA valve to feed these 2 Hose > valves with a pull station adjacent to each HV. FD pulls stations, > activates Solenoid at PA valve and they have water to formerly dry > Standpipes. Seemed like a straightforward approach to me, although a simple > Dry Standpipe with a Dry Valve would probably have worked just as well. I > can't remember why he would not allow that. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > Is this pull station located at the riser next to the PA valve to comply > with NFPA 13, 7.3.1.2 or is it somewhere else? How is it tied into the PA > system, I seemed to miss that description. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > EOR just called me again, and I quote: > > "Fire alarms are life safety and supposed to go off way before the > sprinklers activate. Sprinklers are for property protection and not life > safety. This has been drilled in to me through training" > > He said the fact that the Potter website references NFPA #72 stating that > failure of the (releasing panel) shall not impair the operation of the > sprinkler system proves that.....(I don't get that either) > > Well now I know, and here I have been thinking that what I do is important. > > But the pull station/releasing device problem is solved at least. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > No, that would be too simple.... I am the contractor and the EOR is saying > it in is in our scope of work, no big deal. The issue is that he didn't want > the "releasing devices" tied into the alarm system and wanted them installed > in accordance with NFPA #13. The "RD" specified by the AHJ to be electric > (this is the AHJ's brainchild/requirement) and that it should electrically > release the solenoid on the Preaction valve. He said NFPA #72 doesn't apply > to the "RD's". > > I said no way. BTW, the AHJ said no way as well. He wants the "Pull > Stations" monitored for integrity, so if there is a bad wire, etc they get a > trouble signal. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Forest Wilson > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:32 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > I would suspect the problem is the EOR may be telling the sprinkler > contractor it is his scope of work, not the alarm contractor scope of work. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:22 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > Ok, so is there a problem with his definition? By NFPA 72 definition a > pull station is an initiating device. Its actuation initiates a response. > So in the case of the preaction system it is an initiating device since it > initiates opening of the PA valve. > > Whatever it's called, whether it be pull station or releasing device is > pretty much irrelevant. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: pull stations > > Got an engineer telling me that a "pull station" wired to a non-interlock > pre-action system is NOT an alarm device and is part of the sprinkler system > per NFPA #13. He is calling it a releasing device and not a "pull station" > by definition. > > ???thoughts? > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
