So his hose monkeys are going to use tenant hoses that have been exposed to freezing temperatures to put out fires at an outside swimming pool and in a "stubby" (not defined in IBC or NFPA) stairwell, supposedly not meant for combustible loading at all? And apparently the hose station for the stairwell is in the stairwell and the one for the pool is on the pool deck. This reminds me of the AHJ that told me that Roland's interpretation of NFPA 13 (and this was with references) was WRONG (emphasis his). Not, mind you, differing, but WRONG. Kind of reminds me of your EOR. Soon I'll be returning to Bizarro World where I'll feel much better. Much better.
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Greg McGahan <[email protected]> wrote: > This is a horse of a different color. It is a 9 story Motel with 2 levels of > PG underneath. The PG is approx double the footprint of the upper levels and > above the 2nd level of parking there is an outdoor pool deck 150' long or so. > There is also one stubby stairwell that goes from the 1st level of PG to the > 2nd level and stops. The AHJ required a hose valve in the stubby stair and > one on the Pool Deck. Since both of these Valves are exposed to freezing > temps, the AHJ wanted a Non-Interlock PA valve to feed these 2 Hose valves > with a pull station adjacent to each HV. FD pulls stations, activates > Solenoid at PA valve and they have water to formerly dry Standpipes. Seemed > like a straightforward approach to me, although a simple Dry Standpipe with a > Dry Valve would probably have worked just as well. I can't remember why he > would not allow that. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > Is this pull station located at the riser next to the PA valve to comply with > NFPA 13, 7.3.1.2 or is it somewhere else? How is it tied into the PA > system, I seemed to miss that description. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > EOR just called me again, and I quote: > > "Fire alarms are life safety and supposed to go off way before the sprinklers > activate. Sprinklers are for property protection and not life safety. This > has been drilled in to me through training" > > He said the fact that the Potter website references NFPA #72 stating that > failure of the (releasing panel) shall not impair the operation of the > sprinkler system proves that.....(I don't get that either) > > Well now I know, and here I have been thinking that what I do is important. > > But the pull station/releasing device problem is solved at least. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > No, that would be too simple.... I am the contractor and the EOR is saying it > in is in our scope of work, no big deal. The issue is that he didn't want the > "releasing devices" tied into the alarm system and wanted them installed in > accordance with NFPA #13. The "RD" specified by the AHJ to be electric (this > is the AHJ's brainchild/requirement) and that it should electrically release > the solenoid on the Preaction valve. He said NFPA #72 doesn't apply to the > "RD's". > > I said no way. BTW, the AHJ said no way as well. He wants the "Pull Stations" > monitored for integrity, so if there is a bad wire, etc they get a trouble > signal. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Forest Wilson > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:32 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > I would suspect the problem is the EOR may be telling the sprinkler > contractor it is his scope of work, not the alarm contractor scope of work. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:22 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: pull stations > > Ok, so is there a problem with his definition? By NFPA 72 definition a > pull station is an initiating device. Its actuation initiates a response. > So in the case of the preaction system it is an initiating device since it > initiates opening of the PA valve. > > Whatever it's called, whether it be pull station or releasing device is > pretty much irrelevant. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: pull stations > > Got an engineer telling me that a "pull station" wired to a non-interlock > pre-action system is NOT an alarm device and is part of the sprinkler system > per NFPA #13. He is calling it a releasing device and not a "pull station" > by definition. > > ???thoughts? > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
