Oh yeah. I forgot about that part (insert ironic emoticon here) On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Greg McGahan <[email protected]> wrote: > Good idea, if only sprinklers were for life safety. > > Greg McGahan > > Living Water Fire Protection > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:55 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: pull stations > > More reliable also which is probably why the AHJ wants the electrics > to be monitored. What if you use a normally closed, continuous duty > solenoid so that on loss of power the system floods. Failsafe. > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 5:55 AM, Greg McGahan <[email protected]> wrote: >> Probably, but it was not my choice. >> >> Greg McGahan >> >> Living Water Fire Protection >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:36 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> Would pneumatic release be simpler? 1/2" galv can't be all that different >> than conduit. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:24 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> UNLESS, the AHJ requires the wiring to be monitored. >> >> Greg McGahan >> >> Living Water Fire Protection >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:22 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> That being the case I'd have to say that those pull stations have nothing to >> do with NFPA 72. You wouldn't need to supervise the PA wiring. I've had >> this type of scenario played out many times in unheated process buildings. >> We typically use dry pipe valves, it's just simpler. >> >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection Specialist >> Mechanical Department >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> [email protected] >> http://www.ch2m.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:22 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> This is a horse of a different color. It is a 9 story Motel with 2 levels of >> PG underneath. The PG is approx double the footprint of the upper levels and >> above the 2nd level of parking there is an outdoor pool deck 150' long or >> so. There is also one stubby stairwell that goes from the 1st level of PG >> to the 2nd level and stops. The AHJ required a hose valve in the stubby >> stair and one on the Pool Deck. Since both of these Valves are exposed to >> freezing temps, the AHJ wanted a Non-Interlock PA valve to feed these 2 Hose >> valves with a pull station adjacent to each HV. FD pulls stations, >> activates Solenoid at PA valve and they have water to formerly dry >> Standpipes. Seemed like a straightforward approach to me, although a simple >> Dry Standpipe with a Dry Valve would probably have worked just as well. I >> can't remember why he would not allow that. >> >> Greg McGahan >> >> Living Water Fire Protection >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:40 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> Is this pull station located at the riser next to the PA valve to comply >> with NFPA 13, 7.3.1.2 or is it somewhere else? How is it tied into the PA >> system, I seemed to miss that description. >> >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection Specialist >> Mechanical Department >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> [email protected] >> http://www.ch2m.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:32 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> EOR just called me again, and I quote: >> >> "Fire alarms are life safety and supposed to go off way before the >> sprinklers activate. Sprinklers are for property protection and not life >> safety. This has been drilled in to me through training" >> >> He said the fact that the Potter website references NFPA #72 stating that >> failure of the (releasing panel) shall not impair the operation of the >> sprinkler system proves that.....(I don't get that either) >> >> Well now I know, and here I have been thinking that what I do is important. >> >> But the pull station/releasing device problem is solved at least. >> >> Greg McGahan >> >> Living Water Fire Protection >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:51 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> No, that would be too simple.... I am the contractor and the EOR is saying >> it in is in our scope of work, no big deal. The issue is that he didn't want >> the "releasing devices" tied into the alarm system and wanted them installed >> in accordance with NFPA #13. The "RD" specified by the AHJ to be electric >> (this is the AHJ's brainchild/requirement) and that it should electrically >> release the solenoid on the Preaction valve. He said NFPA #72 doesn't apply >> to the "RD's". >> >> I said no way. BTW, the AHJ said no way as well. He wants the "Pull >> Stations" monitored for integrity, so if there is a bad wire, etc they get a >> trouble signal. >> >> Greg McGahan >> >> Living Water Fire Protection >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Forest Wilson >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:32 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> I would suspect the problem is the EOR may be telling the sprinkler >> contractor it is his scope of work, not the alarm contractor scope of work. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:22 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: pull stations >> >> Ok, so is there a problem with his definition? By NFPA 72 definition a >> pull station is an initiating device. Its actuation initiates a response. >> So in the case of the preaction system it is an initiating device since it >> initiates opening of the PA valve. >> >> Whatever it's called, whether it be pull station or releasing device is >> pretty much irrelevant. >> >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection Specialist >> Mechanical Department >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> [email protected] >> http://www.ch2m.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan >> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:03 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: pull stations >> >> Got an engineer telling me that a "pull station" wired to a non-interlock >> pre-action system is NOT an alarm device and is part of the sprinkler system >> per NFPA #13. He is calling it a releasing device and not a "pull station" >> by definition. >> >> ???thoughts? >> >> Greg McGahan >> >> Living Water Fire Protection >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering > Bates Technical College > Tacoma, WA > > Member: > SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >
-- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
