Well, for some reason this AHJ seems to have determined that this little beer cooler that is "quite a bit less" than 2000 sqft in a building "too small to require sprinklers" in HIS jurisdiction is somehow more dangerous than every other similar beer cooler in every other jurisdiction in America despite the collective wisdom of all the committee members that have ever sat on code writing committees. But, it's not so dangerous as to require a full system (no doubt his idea of compromise), but maybe an FDC. I wonder how many total sprinkler FDCs have been charged out of necessity in the last ten years. And isn't there a caveat in all the model codes that prohibits partial systems altogether, required or voluntary (which this is a hybrid of since it's a required partial system voluntarily being added by force to a non-required occupancy)? I get soooo confused some times.
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Brad <[email protected]> wrote: > Cooler/freezer with combustible insulating panels > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richardson, R [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:03 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: RE: FDC on Limited Area Sprinklers > > If it is in the consulting stage maybe the client would be better served to > have the AHJ questioned as to the "legality" of the requirement. > > Your statement that the "The bldg is 'too small to REQUIRE sprinks', but > the AHJ wants some heads in a particular area." is worthy of further > exploration. > > What exactly is the hazard at issue here anyways? > > Rich Richardson > Seattle Fire Department > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 06:43 > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: FDC on Limited Area Sprinklers > > Thanks Thom ,George, Chris, > Sorry for the delayed reply- I do not have IAH (internet at home). > The area is actually quite a bit less than 2000 SF. The bldg is 'too small > to REQUIRE sprinks', but the AHJ wants some heads in a particular area. EC > is correct to stay less than 20, though, bcoz there is some 'above and > below'. All heads will be calc'd (on one level). It is in the consulting > stage, so by the time it is bid, the Sprink will know whether or not to > include the FDC. I took the '2000 SF building' to mean 2000 SF of > sprinklers, remembered we deal with emergency situations, and thought about > the 'probable waste of time' thing for Limited Area sprinklers. > Thanks again, > Brad > -----Original Message----- > From: George Church [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 3:55 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: FDC on Limited Area Sprinklers > > What about the adjacent and unprotected combustible concealed space- doesn't > that mean you calc 3,000 SF of that 2,000 SF area? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:35 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected]; 'Chris > Cahill' > Subject: RE: FDC on Limited Area Sprinklers > > Use EC heads and you'll still be under the 20 by a long way. > > Thom McMahon, SET > Firetech, Inc. > 2560 Copper Ridge Dr > P.O. Box 882136 > Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 > Tel: 970-879-7952 > Fax: 970-879-7926 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:55 AM > To: 'Chris Cahill'; [email protected] > Subject: RE: FDC on Limited Area Sprinklers > > Good thoughts Chris, thanks. > Now for a specific- Bldg code calls for 1 story, not over 2000 SQ FT - no > FDC required-- what about a 4000 SF bldg (sprinklers not Required, but AHJ > wants a limited area (less than 2000 SF) sprinklered)-- I know it is up to > him/her on the FDC, what are your thoughts? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Cahill [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 12:40 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: RE: FDC on Limited Area Sprinklers > > Even if the fire isn't in the area it doesn't harm anything to hook up to > it. They will bring the system pressure up to 150 psi and it will be > static. The sign is already required. > > Now if you want to debate FDC's and are they really needed on any system > then sure. Talking simple sprinklers not standpipes. Think if it this way > how many times does an FDC make a difference in the outcome? I suspect not > often. But in the grand scheme FDC's are not a big portion $$$ of a job so > we'll just keep them. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 12:30 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: FDC on Limited Area Sprinklers > > What do you Forumites think about this? I think an fdc should be PROHIBITED > on Limited Area systems- > > Probable waste of time is the reason. I guess an exception could be if there > is a laminated diagram posted at the FDC- 'Attention Fireman- > > Unless the fire is in THIS area, do NOT connect' > > Thanks, > > Brad > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
