I explain the water doesn't know who underwrites the building, it moves from
areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure follwoing the rules of
nature.
It won't slow down to 15 FPS so why pretend it will?
As Roland's white paper years ago said, the friction loss in high velocity
systems self-regulates the use of high velocity. if you haven't got the
steam to make it go, you can't use it.
If you do have the excess pressure to burn, the watter WILL go that quick so
why not understand that and accept it?
If the EOR doesn't budge because he believes his own thumb, can you ask the
Owner or Owner's rep if the Owner cares a hoot about it since its not in
code and costs him $$$? That will generally get relief. 

I heard FM was trying to stop what was then little G from installing 1"
grids in Acme grocery stores. And I'll agree that if flowing one more head
blows the calc out by 30 PSI, maybe you've pushed a little harder than you
should, and spring for the 1.25". In my slash and burn days in the 80's,
when a 5 PSI cushion was there if you added up the cushion on the three
systems ;) I designed systems that probably woulda gotten speeding tix in
Montana. Protecting my retirement asset, smaller stones.

We recently did some retrofit and repair work on a large contractor's
systems from the 1970's with big pumps and really really small pipe, bearing
out what I'd heard about the 1' grids. 

glc

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff
Whitfield
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: RE: limits on velocity

Therein lies the problem.  I see this all of the time and most are very
reluctant to remove their restrictions.  It must come from something they
learned in plumbing or HVAC but the ones I deal with are usually adamant
about keeping it.  And boy does it ever make your pipe sizes go up.

I feel your pain.

Cliff

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack,
SET
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 1:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: limits on velocity

The question was asked because a specifying engineer is requiring 15 fps on
all pipes - including existing piping for a 6 story retrofit.  The existing
system calculations indicate velocities of 34 fps.  :-)

On 6/25/2010 11:22 AM, Vince Sabolik wrote:
> ALWAYS WAS rule of thumb. And I got an old thumb... 16 fps for 
> underground
>
>
>
>
> Vince Sabolik
> Christi Fire Protection, Inc.
> 11351 Pearl Road
> Strongsville, Ohio 44136
>
> T 440 572-7730  F 440 572-7719  Email:
> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
>
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