What's the static when the pump(s) cut-out, before the allowable leakage and the air cushioning effect drops the pressure? Remember last week's jockey pump jibber-jabber fest? UG piping just sitting will drop to 0 eventually if something does'nt re-pressurize it. The little pump probably serves this jockey pump function plus low flows so find out what the high static is and use that for your static. You know you can't have a residual increase from the true static pressure.
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Matthew J. Willis <[email protected]> wrote: > Do the flow test as stipulated in 13. Record the results. Base your design > on this. We cannot design to "if". This same thing happens with a fire > booster pump on the system right? Do we plan our calcs on that pump being > offline? > > R/ > Matt > > > > > > Matthew J. Willis, CET > Automatic Fire Sprinklers > Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. > 318-387-1134 Voice > 318-816-1087 Mobile > 318-387-1163 Facsimile > [email protected] >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- >> >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] >> >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:24 PM >> >To: '[email protected]' >> >Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump >> > >> >You should perform a flow test near the system demand (total flow) and >> >see what happens with the city pumps. >> > >> >For your calcs, use a static 1 psi higher than your residual pressure at >> >the flow you perform. This will give you a flat curve that your computer >> >can understand without creating a safety factor that may not exist. >> > >> >Duane Johnson, PE >> >Program Manager >> >Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) >> >Office of Research Services >> >National Institutes of Health >> >301-496-0487 >> > >> >"Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Brian Harris [mailto:[email protected]] >> >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 2:18 PM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump >> > >> >Just talked with the guy at the water department and there are three >> >pumps >> >at the pump house, small/medium/large. They kick on as needed to keep the >> >city pressure up, what he couldn't tell me was how much of a pressure >> >drop >> >was required to start the pump. Looks like I'll use the results from the >> >test and duck when hydracad try's to process a residual higher than the >> >static..... >> > >> >Brian Harris >> >FDFP Inc. >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve >> >Leyton >> >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:08 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump >> > >> >Are the city pumps redundant? Will the water utilities and/or fire >> >department vouch for those pressures as normal operating conditions? >> >Most of San Diego County is relatively new (sub-50 years) >> >infrastructure, so this situation isn't unheard of around here. In >> >checking with the water department, we have consistently found that >> >their position is that the pump system is regularly exercised, backed >> >up, and highly unlikely to fail. Serving fire departments generally >> >concur. >> > >> >To be on the safe side, take a 10% drop from static at your flow rate >> >and call it a day. >> > >> >SL >> > >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian >> >Harris >> >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 8:03 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: Flow Test With City Pump >> > >> >Just did a flow test for a new project and the static was 100psi, opened >> >the >> >hydrant and the residual dropped to 50psi for a couple of seconds and >> >then >> >the city pumps kicked on and the residual went to 110psi. When doing the >> >calc's for this system wouldn't you need to do it without the boost from >> >the >> >pumps? (S=100 R=50) If that is the case what do you do for the flow as >> >the >> >pitot reading was done after the pumps kicked in? >> > >> > >> > >> >Brian Harris >> > >> >First Defense Fire Protection >> > >> >11957 Ramah Church Road >> > >> >Huntersville, NC 28078 >> > >> >Phone: 704.948.3506 >> > >> >Fax: 704.948.3507 >> > >> >Nicet # 128476 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16510) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ >> >======= >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email >> >to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16510) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ >> >======= >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >======= >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16510) >> >http://www.pctools.com/ >> >======= >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >No virus found in this incoming message. >> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3313 - Release Date: 12/14/10 >> >01:34:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
