The Mythbusters did just that. One episode about the 3rd rail and urination, the other about a water based taser. In both, they could not get a continuous stream, therefore there was no conduction.
R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, CET Automatic Fire Sprinklers Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. 318-387-1134 Voice 318-816-1087 Mobile 318-387-1163 Facsimile [email protected] > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stewart Kidd > >Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 4:59 PM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms > > > >I'm with Craig - having spent 10 years managing fire protection for two > >electrical utility operations in my sordid youth, this is a subject dear > >to my heart. > > > >Despite trying for 25 years I've not been able to find any evidence of > >anyone having been injured or killed by the conductivity of water being > >discharged through a fire suppression system. The origins of the 'risk' > >appear to be in research work done by the Sapeurs-Pompiers de Paris in > >the late 20's using an experimental rig consisting of two insulated metal > >branchpipes with a ammeter bridging them. When a current was passed > >through one pipe while they were discharging, the two jets mixed at some > >distance from the tips and a current was seen to flow. > > > >In real life zip ! > > > >I wish someone with more money than me would would do a proper scientific > >study and dispel what is essentially a myth - in the UK this causes us to > >have install multiple fire extinguishers wherever there is an electrical > >risk despite the fact that I routinely specify waterspray on 400 kV > >transformers and 25kV turboalternators. > > > >Regards > > > >Stewart > >On 27 Jan 2011, at 20:10, Bobby McCullough wrote: > > > >> Maybe scroll through this from January 2010? > >> > >> You're correct Ron. Biggest reasons for not sprinklering is either > >fear of accidental head discharge and/or electrocution from the > >accidental head discharge. Neither can be substantiated through > >verifiable statistics. > >> > >> Last year I did some investigation of reported Industrial accidents > >related to electrocutions and the only fire fighter electrocution > >recorded for the past 15+ years was for a wildfire where a power line > >fell into an area where firefighters were using a hose attack. There was > >not one recorded incident of ANY personnel being injured due to water in > >an electrical room. > >> > >> The perception is that sprinklers randomly discharge all the time, all > >sprinkler systems are deluge systems, if someone is standing in the room > >when the sprinklers discharge they could be electrocuted. > >> > >> Typically dry equipment isn't as great a risk as oil filled, but still > >a risk. > >> > >> We had a carpet warehouse locally that had a fire begin in their second > >floor electrical room. Fortunately it was sprinklered. The fire was out > >before the FD arrived. This place stored millions of dollars of imported > >rugs. When the news report stated the sprinkler saved the building, it > >was like "YES, Score one for the sprinklers." They reopened the store > >later that day. > >> > >> > >> Craig L. Prahl, CET > >> Fire Protection Specialist > >> Mechanical Department > >> CH2MHILL > >> Lockwood Greene > >> 1500 International Drive > >> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > >> Direct - 864.599.4102 > >> Fax - 864.599.8439 > >> [email protected] > >> http://www.ch2m.com > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:39 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms > >> > >> Addressing Craig's mention of perceptions. There is a horrendous fear > >of water damage among most (and especially electrical) engineers. I once > >had an electrical engineer tell me you couldn't sprinkler a hydro- > >electric plant. First because it was too full of electrical equipment and > >secondly (and more humorously) because there wasn't enough water. When I > >pointed out that he had the second biggest river in North America backed > >up against one side of his building he told me that you couldn't use that > >water. I tried to find one of those tables like in 13D as to where fires > >most commonly start in commercial buildings but ran out of time. My gut > >tells me electrical rooms could be a prime location and electrical vaults > >(where the transformers are) also seem to be culprits. I just don't have > >any numbers to back up MY perceptions so will not try to enforce them. > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:26 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> It makes no difference whether the line passes through the room or > >comes in and stops as long as you are in the allowable space as defined > >within the section of the electrical code. People are extrapolating > >limitations based on their perception not on code verbiage. We've had > >several detailed discussions on this matter. > >>> > >>> > >>> Craig L. Prahl, CET > >>> Fire Protection Specialist > >>> Mechanical Department > >>> CH2MHILL > >>> Lockwood Greene > >>> 1500 International Drive > >>> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - > >>> 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >>> [email protected] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:44 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: Electrical Rooms > >>> > >>> In the handbook of NFPA 72 they show a figure where the sprinkler pipe > >ends in the electrical room , but it does not go thru the room. > >>> mario berrios > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: George Church <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Mon, Jan 4, 2010 11:54 am > >>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms > >>> > >>> > >>> Remember they're the ones finding the invisible fault with you > >>> crossing an electrical room with your piping. > >>> > >>> So that you are sure you comply FULLY with the applicable code > >>> preventing you from doing this (ITHO) ask them to provide the > >>> applicable code reference. > >>> > >>> glc > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eladio > >N. > >>> Alvarado > >>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:38 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms > >>> > >>> Eric: > >>> > >>> I understand and agree with you, but the EOR insist that the 4" main > >>> to the FD Connection, which by the way is dry (check valve in another > >>> space) should not cross the room since is in violation of NEC, > >>> according to their interpretation. I have already recited chapter and > >>> verse of the code requirements and exceptions, but it doesn't seem to > >>> sink in. There may other issues that affect their perception or > >>> attitude, but I'm kind stuck, and would really like to find > >>> irrefutable proof to my point. > >>> > >>> Eladio Alvarado > >>> AFSDII > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Eric > >>> Tysinger > >>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 10:37 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms > >>> > >>> To my knowledge, there is nothing from NFPA 13 that addresses this. > >>> The clearance requirements are found in the NEC, and there is nothing > >>> in the NEC that prohibits piping from entering and exiting the > >>> electrical room. > >>> Don't > >>> forget there are rules in NFPA 13 that allow the sprinkler to be > >>> omitted. I try to use these to avoid the questions all together. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Eric Tysinger CET > >>> NICET 108988 > >>> Designer > >>> Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. > >>> 4370 Motorsport Drive > >>> Concord, NC 28027 > >>> p: (704)782-3032 > >>> f: (704)795-6838 > >>> C: (239)633-9703 > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eladio > >N. > >>> Alvarado > >>> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:31 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Electrical Rooms > >>> > >>> Happy New Year to all!! > >>> > >>> I know that we have previously discussed Electrical Equipment rooms, > >>> and that the general consensus is that there is nothing in NFPA 13 > >>> that prohibits sprinkler pipe, be it mains and/or branch lines from > >>> entering the room, as long as it doesn't violate the require perimeter > >>> area of the particular equipment. Now my question is; is there a > >>> technical interpretation from NFPA 13 that explains this, and that > >>> someone in the forum may be aware of? I could really use this info to > >>> nail this subject closed with the EOR. > >>> > >>> Thanks in advanced, > >>> > >>> Eladio Alvarado > >>> AFSDII > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris > >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:59 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms > >> > >> C'mon man! > >> > >> Brian Harris > >> FDFP Inc. > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike > >> Hairfield > >> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:54 PM > >> To: AFSA SprinklerFORUM > >> Subject: RE: Electrical Rooms > >> > >> > >> This is Lazy, look it up in the NEC > >> > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Electrical Rooms > >>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:47:30 -0500 > >>> > >>> I'm being lazy but does anybody know off the top of their head if you > >can > >>> run sprinkler lines over an Electrical room if it has a ceiling? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Brian Harris > >>> > >>> First Defense Fire Protection > >>> > >>> 11957 Ramah Church Road > >>> > >>> Huntersville, NC 28078 > >>> > >>> Phone: 704.948.3506 > >>> > >>> Fax: 704.948.3507 > >>> > >>> Nicet # 128476 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ======= > >>> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > >>> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) > >>> http://www.pctools.com/ > >>> ======= > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >>> > >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > >[email protected] > >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > >[email protected] > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ======= > >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > >> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) > >> http://www.pctools.com/ > >> ======= > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ======= > >> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > >> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16770) > >> http://www.pctools.com/ > >> ======= > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > >[email protected] > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > >[email protected] > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3404 - Release Date: 01/27/11 > >01:37:00 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
