I was just wondering how 1 minute is 30% longer than no delay. George Church Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax [email protected]
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: a glaring inequality in 13? I just got done with this with my chillun'. Might I suggest that that everybody quit trying to "figure" out what is actually happening in the system when you have a different parameter and just accept the fact that these rules are based on: 1, testing (but only a small proportion thereof), 2. what has worked in the past (most of the stuff), 3. is it physically buildable, 4. what someone convinced enough committee members was a good idea, and 5. is it affordable under most conditions without compromising 2. Then the rules are just the rules without you having to apply some speculation about the where, why and how. I had an energizer tell me once that a fire initially "gets bigger" when you throw water on it because the heat disassociates the hydrogen and the oxygen from lots of the molecules so that water actually adds fuel and oxidizer to the fire. Apparently I must look like a moron. On this forum there are people convinced that the purpose of a WMG is to guide the FD to the FDC. Gotta be careful guys. For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken For every problem there is a solution which is simple, obvious, and wrong." - Albert Einstein On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> wrote: > 30% longer than if the water was right there, so the fire will be 30% > bigger and yes, more heads will open. For heads to operate faster you > have to put them closer to the fire, or closer to each other. The > inequality comes from the fact that in both the wet and dry case, they > are both of those- same spacing and height. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ronl.Fletcher [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:53 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: a glaring inequality in 13? > > 30% longer than what, a wet system? I always thought the 30% increase > was because more heads are likely to open because of the delayed water > delivery. > > Ron Fletcher > Aero Automatic > Phoenix, AZ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Casterline > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:42 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: a glaring inequality in 13? > > Thanks Ken, > We increase the area 30% for dry because it takes the water 30% longer > to get to the head after it goes off. The inequality I see is in > saying the water will take 200 times longer to get to the head in the > dry example, since slope and response time based on height are equal > in both cases. If I was going to suggest something, it would be to add > a 5th parameter to QR > Reduction- either "max slope = 2/12", or "wet, except dry is ok if > unoccupied attic not exceeding 20'". I prefer the latter, with my > apologies to Tyco :) Thanks again! > > -----Original Message----- > From: ParsleyConsulting [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:23 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: a glaring inequality in 13? > > Brad, > > I'm not sure I see a "glaring inequality", since the allowable > reduction for using quick response sprinklers would not apply to dry systems. > > The increase in remote area for the pitch of the roof is applied > equally to both wet and dry systems. > > The increase for dry systems is only applied to dry systems [perhaps > obviously]. > > The reduction for quick response sprinklers is not allowed for dry systems. > > Are you suggesting that it should be? > > PARSLEY CONSULTING > Ken Wagoner, SET > 760.745.6181 voice > 760.745.0537 fax > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>e-mail > www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com>website > > > On 2/7/2011 9:50 AM, Brad Casterline wrote: >> I would appreciate thoughts and comments from all willing to take the > time: >> >> Combustible attic, 4/12 slope, 10' to peak. 1500*1.3=1950 for slope > exceeds >> 2/12. Light Hazard, so QR heads required. If DRY, 1950*1.3=2535. If >> WET, 1950*.6=1170. (QR Reduction). Doesn't this mean the area has to >> be > increased >> over 200% for DRY, not 30%? For 20' to the peak, 1950*.75=1463~~ 170% >> increase for DRY. Using SSU, the increase would be for the exact same >> spacing and height in both cases. BB and SD Attic heads 'increase' >> the > area >> 30% for DRY (from 5 to 7 heads), but without regard to height, and >> the > slope >> MUST be minimum 4/12. They must be within 6" each side of the peak, at 6' >> max. SSU also have to be within 6" each side, and 8' max is cheaper >> than a pump. I know this has not come up in the 16 months since I >> discovered the Forum. If it did before that, I would appreciate being >> pointed to the location of all discussion about it. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Brad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
