Brad, Fast response elements do not always make for QR heads. Two different tests. In fact, there is a Tyco head that I can't recall the number for and am not interested enough to chase down that is QR to a certain height and after that the listing changes to SR. QR just does not make much sense to me in dry applications at all but absolutely no sense where the fire is primarily vertical (racks, steep slopes) and the heat jet is concentrated and the ceiling jet disbursement will be intense and horizontal, particularly in the case of a ceiling where the heat will be traveling primarily along the ridge. I think the negatives associated with opening heads not over the fire far outweigh the minimal increase in delivery time gained, particularly when you realize you're delivering a lot of the water where it's not needed. Wet pipe though and I'll argue completely the opposite.
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:58 AM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> wrote: > I should have said -inherent delays- for LH DRY, (slow heat being the less > obvious one). > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Casterline [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: a glaring inequality in 13? > > Ron, a few years ago, I did a somewhat in-depth study of attic heads (read > all the details of the testing set-ups, fire size and location, heights). > The Attic heads were previously listed QR, EC heads, only the deflectors > were changed, so the testing was more for the patterns. Out of the testing > DID come the realization for the need of heads at the peak. For Light > Hazard, I think an ultra-quick response head would be best for DRY, so as > not to aggravate the inherent delay. For OH, maybe not. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Greenman [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: a glaring inequality in 13? > > Well Brad, I think the stuff for the slopes may have been based on > comparative testing done when attic heads were being tested. Seems I recall > seeing big roofs pretty well gutted when protected by ss heads. I certainly > don't like the idea of QR on dry systems at all and I think to give the calc > a bonus for using them thusly would be a really bad idea. You could use > attic heads and avoid A/D altogether. > > Ron Greenman > ...On the phone > > On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:33 PM, "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> :) make mine a double. I enjoyed every response, and look forward to more- >> (I CAN sleep, but it is fitful). To me the inequality is not so > complicated- >> we come up with a certain calc area- THEN, if dry, increase 30%. For the >> example I gave, we increase over 200%- straight out of 13, no modeling, >> tests, or changing tried and true applications. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ron Greenman [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:11 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: a glaring inequality in 13? >> >> Bingo. And I have some olden editions full of stuff that was different >> then than now. I don't know why but I can assume the authors did. I >> can fret about it and try to second guess what the were thinking or I >> can have a nice Scotch. >> >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Thom <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> What I see is general Knowledge of what works vs. both the expense to run >>> real tests of every possible config. And the lack of quality modeling to >> use >>> in lieu of all those tests. >>> If one of you wins the Powerball and wants to donate the cost of testing, >>> that's about the only way I see this difference between what is! And What >>> MAY be appropriate. >>> >>> Money talks, but experience rules! 13 is mostly over 100yrs of not having >> to >>> re-think what didn't work, but following what did. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Ron Greenman >> Instructor >> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >> Bates Technical College >> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >> Tacoma, WA 98405 >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >> >> 253.680.7346 >> 253.576.9700 (cell) >> >> Member: >> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC >> >> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >> Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
