Steve- I've never seen a forum where people are so quick to want to get paid for participating, that goes against the very nature of what this forum was set up to do. I suggest you & George start a pay-as-you-go page and see how well you do. And for what it's worth my original post was not reposted in it's entirety... I don't just post questions randomly because I'm too lazy to look it up myself, sometimes however when your in a pinch for time there ARE people who are willing to help a fellow designer out, no strings attached.
Brian Harris FDFP Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 1:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Flow Test Lighten up Francis ... <joke, please don't get any more riled up> George's point, bluntly made and devoid of diplomatic window dressing, is (I think) that there is a line between solicitation and discussion of subjective/interpretive information and dialogue vs. flat out asking how to design or do something. June 21 will be my 30th anniversary in this business and over that many years, I have acquired a skill or two. To the extent that other people pay me (well, in theory they pay me; mostly they just owe me) for my advice and opinions. And often, to help them with subjective and interpretive issues pertaining to codes and standards. Our firm is paid and my staff is trained to prepare and manage the highest quality fire protection system construction documents that we can muster. I/we take pride in all of that but the bottom line is that we do it for money. WE GET PAID TO PROVIDE THESE SERVICES. And then we roll thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours every year back into professional training, continuing education, NICET certification, etc. So it rankles the hell outta' me (and George too, I'm guessing) when I see my competitors in the markets we serve dishing up crap for deliverable product. And it's frustrating that there are folks out there that are not willing to undertake the professional growth to become knowledgeable INDEPENDENT practitioners of our trade. AFSA (and NFSA) is (are) about training, and delivering a high quality service to the marketplace. This Forum is an AFSA venue, so the underlying energy is, as it should be, about sharing information, enhancing each other's vocabulary in fire and life safety, learning a thing or two, and getting a leg up on something that may fall between the lines, or even outside of codes and standards. But I agree with George that it is not and should not be a primer for design; AFSA has a school for that and we should promote the heck out of it because it's a good program. As is the University of Cecil, Champaign. As long as we're pimping, I offer training classes too. For which I get paid. There's a common theme here; costs of sales are higher when you invest money in your business, which in turn helps you to deliver a premium product for which (oddly) I expect to get paid. Can we all be more diplomatic at times? Sure, but I think we can also stipulate and accept that resentment toward those who pursue the path of least resistance is a normal and reasonable reaction. And as they say after a night of drinking, never take seriously that which is poked at you in fun. Steve -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Flow Test You my friend need to get a life. It's people like you that are ruining this forum with your holier-than-thou attitude, I can't count the number of people that choose to respond directly with an email instead of post an answer on the forum because of you and others in your inner circle of know-it-alls. If you don't have anything constructive to add to a post why bother? Are you that lonely..... Brian Harris FDFP Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 11:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Flow Test Do you mean there's someone with a snappy comeback for a request for funding the folks who enable us to share these discussions, or there's someone too friggin lazy to pick up the code book on their desk and look up the answer in 2 minutes more than it takes to type in the question and let others look it up for them for no compensation? George Church Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 8:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Flow Test There's one in every crowd..... Brian Harris FDFP Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 12:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Flow Test Most of us would charge a client to provide "answers" under the gun, but since this is the AFSA forum, please forward all checks for this service directly to the AFSA @ American Fire Sprinkler Association 12750 Merit Drive, Suite 350 Dallas, TX 75251 Phone: 214 349 5965 / Fax: 214 343 8898 Thank you for your contribution. Subject: RE: Flow Test Brad- I'm under the gun and it's just quicker.... Thanks for the input guys. 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