I believe in the original scenario the building is required to be sprinklered, so the system must be code compliant. Now it may be a grey area as to whether having full protection below the ceiling and partial protection above is code compliant.
I have done very few voluntary designs in the past. Two I remember were required to meet the current codes in the jurisdiction they were installed in. These jurisdictions did allow you to apply for variances if full compliance could not be 'reasonably' meet. A third job did not have that luxury and after several meetings with the AHJ about the costs associated with a fully compliant system, the owner opted to NOT install sprinklers. I do agree that there are times when some protection is better than none and that every square foot of a building does not need to be protected. We are also at the mercy of how an AHJ may interpret the code. In the original scenario what is cheaper, either leaving or plugging all the uprights while the crew is there or going back after a failed inspection because the AHJ sees things differently. The voluntary system in my house has been turned off for the last 5 or 6 years, because it was designed to provide full protection. This required the use on anti-freeze, which as it turns out breaks down the seal between the brass insert and the CPVC of a sprinkler adapter. I have about 60 leaks (leaking anti-freeze) throughout my house. I now have the daunting task of replacing all the sprinkler adapters, if not the entire system, in the house room by room. I have learned a lot about drywall recently. The day I turned the system off and informed my insurance company that it would be pout of service indefinitely, my rates went up. Mike Hill -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Tenant finish and existing sprinklers Ok, so why NOT leave them in there in case for some reason they are NEEDED (as opposed to required)? Doesn't make sense (except as you noted, an illusion of coverage) to spend money to remove protection. A couple years from now they could have a roof leak, tiles are pulled, a week later they're about to replace them with new but- there's a fire. In my building, the uprights remaining control it. In your building, you paid someone to remove what could have controlled the fire. Would an SSU or CC2 every so often (but exceeding listed spacing) function as a detector to indicate an allowable unprotected combustible concealed space is on fire when you're running CPVC in a 13R wood truss building? Is that a bad thing we should never do? I may not be required to have a fire extinguisher in my house, but I do; couple of em. Should I remove them unless I'm going to completely blanket the house with FE's in accordance with applicable NFPA FE standards, even if inapplicable to my home? After all, my home is a "jobsite" since we replaced the GBs in it (installed by previous owner) so there's a blurring of what is and isn't "real" protection requirements, we can't play pretend with "just houses" any longer. If the 13D system in my home has a dry spot I can't reach (breakfast nook) without exposing it to freezing so its ignored, should I plug off all other heads so there's no illusion of FULL protection in the home? Or am I better off with protection throughout the house (even in some bathrooms <55 SF) knowing I will still get an alarm, somewhat delayed response from a HSW, and know I have egress paths I can use to get out if the breakfast nook is engulfed? My 13D was installed by previous owner voluntarily. Code nazi will improve society and my welfare by making me plug all the heads if he sees the "violation"? If that's the case, cops pulling u over for a broken headlight will break the remaining one so you know you need to get em fixed, right? And stop u from driving home with less than full lighting.... George L. Church, Jr., CET Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Hill Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Tenant finish and existing sprinklers I do not know of any code that says you must take them out. I would however either take them all out or leave them all in. Do not leave an area that does not meet code (or could be easily confused as not meeting code). Leaving a few of the uprights can give the 'illusion' of a non-compliant system. That was advice I received 25 years ago and I still practice it. Mike Hill -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Tenant finish and existing sprinklers Thanks Dale, Since sprinklers are not required in this space per code, why couldn't you leave some in? You are still complying with code. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dale Wingard Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 11:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Tenant finish and existing sprinklers Dewayne, IBC 901.2(2006) allows for a non required system to be installed or remain as it exists, but it is required to meet the code requirements. If you remove any uprights then you will need to remove all of them that are located in the non combustible concealed space. Dale F. Wingard, SET Design Manager Triple "A" Fire Protection, Inc. 251.649.2034 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 11:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Tenant finish and existing sprinklers I think this was talked about but I couldn't find it in the archives. I have a noncombustible tenant spec building that currently has upright sprinklers installed. I am going to use the existing sprinkler outlets to supply the areas with finished ceilings. Is there somewhere in NFPA or IBC/IFC that requires the existing upright sprinklers to be removed and plugged from the finished ceiling areas if I don't use the outlet? Thanks, Dewayne Martinez Design Build Fire Protection New Berlin, WI _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
