That points to one of my favorite things about this controversy: When there wasn't much going on techs were sufficient but when there became real and sustained money to be made all of a sudden inexperienced engineers became more knowledgeable by legislative fiat than thirty year veteran techs. Wizard of Oz stuff.
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:29 AM, 321 <[email protected]> wrote: > ----Original Message----- > From: > [email protected][mailto: > [email protected]] > On Behalf Of A.P.Silva > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 12:19 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Engineers Stamp vs. Seal > > Was it different before 30 years? > > Tony > > ...about 35 years ago the only work we were doing was insurance mandated > warehouse and commercial property conservation systems for FM...IRI,etc. > When > the codes changed during the boom in the late 70's ~ early '80's the PE > community decided that they needed to get in on the action. About 10% of > the > PE's involved in Fire Sprinklers here in Florida know what they are doing > and > are pretty sharp...the rest of them are clueless. > > > John W. Farabee > Vice President Fire Sprinkler Operations > State License No. 20251600012010 > 1480 SW 3RD Street Suite 9 > Pompano Beach, Fl 33411 > 954-785-7800 800-372-2770 Telephone > 954-785-7804 Fax > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: George Church <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, August 29, 2011 3:45:36 PM > Subject: RE: Engineers Stamp vs. Seal > > No. > Maybe even worse. > I remember in mid/late 70's we'd explain to the PEs what the reams of > computer > printouts meant > (generated by the mainframe in Cleveland HQ by guys in white coats on > raised > floors) > After we got done our explanation, they'd stamp em approved and send em > back to > us. > > Yes, this is when fittings were threaded then a 1'-6 pce TG to a grooved > coupling- > > I believe the cost of two 6" grooved 90's and 4 couplings was the same as > 16 > hours of Local 692 labor in Phila. > We had 5" and 3.5", and a lot of 1-1-1.25.......still have those memorized, > even > above and below. > > Frankly, I think it more important to focus on getting sprinklers in houses > rather than licensing laws. > We'd save more people, create a larger market, and we have actually > achieved our > goals in some pockets, one of them being PA for 4 months. > Whereas, are there ANY jurisdictions where FPEs specify all criteria, give > us > corrected flow tests for basis of calcs, on 90% or more of projects? > I'll wager none on Earth except Lake Woebegone, just up the Red River from > Fargo, where all the children are above average, and there's a PTA. > > I was told once that getting drunk drivers off the road would save more > lives > than all our residential sprinklers- and at 3,000 annual deaths vrs 55,000 > for > drunks killing us, can't say I could argue. > I just kept pushing for resi sprinklers, tho. I don't own an insurance > company. > > > > George L. Church, Jr., CET > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 12:19 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Engineers Stamp vs. Seal > > Was it different before 30 years? > > Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 321 > Sent: August 29, 2011 9:59 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Engineers Stamp vs. Seal > > Welcome to the party...here in Florida we have been dealing with this > stupidity > for 30 years. > > > > > John W. Farabee > Vice President Fire Sprinkler Operations State License No. 20251600012010 > 1480 SW 3RD Street Suite 9 > Pompano Beach, Fl 33411 > 954-785-7800 800-372-2770 Telephone > 954-785-7804 Fax > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachment > s/20110829/4f2f3c22/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110830/e272fa1c/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20110830/5cb7e8a3/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
