So here is where the confusion begins with lots of stuff. And note I'm not saying you're wrong but merely I interpret differently.
8.6.5.2.1.8 refers to 8.6.5.2.1.3 and says "shall not apply to sprinkler system piping less than 3 in." 8.6.5.2.1.4 also refers to 8.6.5.2.1.3 and says "For light and ordinary hazard occupancies, structural members only shall be considered when applying the requirements of 8.6.5.2.1.3." Two separate rules that both refer to the requirements of 8.6.5.2.1.3. 8.6.5.2.1.8 does not reference 8.6.5.2.1.4 so is not an "exception" to 8.6.5.2.1.3 per 8.6.5.2.1.4 but is a requirement of 8.6.5.2.1.3 which says "Unless the requirements of 8.6.5.2.1.4 through 8.6.5.2.1.9 are met..." so there is no exception for piping unless less than 3" nom., not because it pipe isn't structural. On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Travis Mack, SET <[email protected]>wrote: > I remember reading something about this when the 3x rule first came out. > > 8.6.5.2.1.3* Unless the requirements of 8.6.5.2.1.4 through 8.6.5.2.1.9 > are met, sprinklers shall be positioned away from obstructions a minimum > distance of three times the maximum dimension of the obstruction (e.g., > structural members, pipe, columns, and fixtures). The maximum clear > distance required shall be 24 in. (609 mm) in accordance with Figure > 8.6.5.2.1.3. > 8.6.5.2.1.4* For light and ordinary hazard occupancies, structural members > only shall be considered when applying the requirements of 8.6.5.2.1.3. > > 8.6.5.2.1.8 The requirements of 8.6.5.2.1.3 shall not apply to sprinkler > system piping less than 3 in. (80 mm) in diameter. > > To me, 8.6.5.2.1.8 says that you don't have to apply the 3x rule to less > than 3", but are required to apply the 3x rule for pipe 3" and larger. > Then, if you follow to 8.6.5.2.1.4, you only have to apply the 3x rule for > structural members in light/ordinary hazard areas. So, if that reasoning > is sound, then you could put an upright sprinkler directly on the 4" pipe > if you are in a light/ordinary hazard area. If it is storage or EH areas, > then you must do the 3x rule away from the edge of the pipe to comply with > the criteria. > > > On 11/24/2011 10:37 AM, Ron Greenman wrote: > >> It's a holiday and I'm not obliged to reference (my personal rule of the >> day) but isn't there also a rule about not attaching a uprights directly >> to >> pipe 3" nom and over? OK, broker my new rule since I'm just sitting around >> waiting for orders from the Commander of Thanksgiving anyways. NFPA >> 13-2010 >> ed. 8.6.5.2.1.8 exempts piping less than 3" from the 3x rule, >> otherwise.... >> And that rule has always (always is at least 1999 edition if not older) >> been there. (Big change editions to 13 I recall 1954, 1991, 1999, and >> everything this century). Happy National Eating Day. Do take a moment to >> reflect about those hat are going hungry in this country where we throw >> more food away per capita than most of the world produces, and how you >> feel >> about that. Are you an "every man for himself" type or a "we're all in >> this >> boat together" person? Or somewhere in between? We show a collective >> appearance to the world that is a composite of "me plus us" to one degree >> or another. Like going to a date are you satisfied with the way we look, >> or >> not, or don't care? Sorry to talk politics (but not partisan mind you) but >> I'm feeling thankful and ashamed at the same time. >> >> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Travis Mack<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Assuming a SSU, you need to be 3x the diameter of the pipe away. So, your >>> deflector would need to be 13.5" away from the top of the pipe. That >>> measurement is on the diagonal, so you could arm out the side and up so >>> the >>> distance hits 13.5". There is also an exception to the 3x rule, that in >>> light and ordinary hazard areas, only structural members shall be >>> considered for the 3x rule. So, using that allowance, the sprinkler could >>> be directly on the pipe if you have an SSU in a light or ordinary hazard >>> area. >>> >>> Happy Thanksgiving! >>> >>> Travis Mack >>> MFP Design, LLC >>> 480-505-9271 >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Nov 24, 2011, at 8:34 AM, Cory Power<sprinklerforum@** >>> ppsprinklers.com <[email protected]>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone know the minimum distance an upright can be above of a 4" >>>> >>> main. it will be coming off a 4 x 1 on a dry system. There isn't much >>> room. >>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL:< >>>> >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/private/** >>> sprinklerforum/attachments/**20111124/81ef0e9e/attachment.**html<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111124/81ef0e9e/attachment.html> >>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org <[email protected]> >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/**sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> >>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org <[email protected]> >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/**sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org <[email protected]> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/**sprinklerforum<http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum> > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20111124/29692004/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
