Ron, stop it.  It's a condition that is known to impede sprinkler
operation.  Doesn't matter if the AHJ prescribed it - which they very
well may have not.  Most of these installations were by lazy contractors
trying to shorten drops in future TI work.   Some cultures still use
human teeth for currency, but that doesn't make it right.  As the AHJ's
like to say, "Just because we did it wrong before doesn't make it right
now."

SML



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron
Greenman
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NFPA 25 inspection of sprinklers with heat collector plates
installed

It's a deficiency for sure, but not per 25. I keep going back in my mind
to the tech that pointed out a coverage deficiency in coverage that he
saw in one part of the building, and called out as such within the test
reports themselves, rather than as comments, but missed a similar
deficiency elsewhere. After the building burnt due to the deficiency
that he missed the lawyer convinced the jury that the tech was
practicing engineering without a license, that the owner had a perfect
right to expect that a complete engineering review had been done as the
tech acted like an engineer and made at least one engineering call. End
result was a $12M judgement over a couple hundred dollar inspection. I
think George told us all about this originally. And this is merely the
worst case. Heat collectors, old or new are, are a design/layout issue
and so allowed or denied by the AHJ. The owner needs to be informed of
the questionability of the efficacy, and perhaps the AHJ directly,
dependent on the rules regarding reporting within the jurisdiction, but
hey are not something that a tech can decide need to be/should be there
or not.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:44 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:

> Gentlemen:
>
> Good points...Did you say it had the 'UL' symbol or the 'FM' symbol???

> Oh, then they shouldn't be attached to the sprinkler, the sprinkler 
> system, the piping (or anything else) - per NFPA-13 (starting in 
> 1896??)...It's a "deficiency" in my non-PE opinion.
>
> Regards to all.
>
> Jerry
> [email protected]
>
> Jerry D. Watts, SFPE
> President & Co-Founder
> ACCENT FIRE ENGINEERING INT'L. Ltd.*
> Santa Fe/Albuquerque/Silver City/Roswell/Artesia  New Mexico Seattle, 
> WA  San Diego, CA  Phoenix, AZ
> (800) 503.1961
>
> *Licensed Fire Engineers - Architects/Inspectors/Fire Investigators:  
> AZ CA  CO  NM  NV  HY  TX  UT  KS  MD  MS
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--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405

[email protected]

http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/

253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)

Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC

They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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