I'd agree if covered then no sprinklers. Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group Burns & McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 ccah...@burnsmcd.com www.burnsmcd.com
Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -----Original Message----- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Chris Born Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:17 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Question about concealed spaces If IBC requires it to be covered, then I think that would allow the attic to be unsprinklered because there wouldn't be exposed combustibles. There are enough provisions in 8.15.1 that address concealed spaces that I'm comfortable that with the spray foam covered, no sprinklers would be required. Christopher Born, P.E. Director, Fire Protection Engineering Clark Nexsen, P.C. Norfolk, VA Sent from my iPad On Oct 10, 2012, at 9:03 AM, "Cahill, Christopher" <ccah...@burnsmcd.com> wrote: > IBC '12 - NFPA 13 '10. I don't know how IBC 603 is going to help. IBC 603 > simply allows certain COMBUSTIBLE materials including insulation and some > foam plastics (which this probably is) in otherwise noncombustible > construction. IBC 603 doesn't provide for any exceptions for sprinklers. I > don't see the exceptions of IBC 903.3.1.1.1 specifically 4 would apply, 603 > just said, or at least implied, it was combustible. The issue is NFPA 13 > and the definition of noncombustible and limited-combustible. Unless it > passes one of the tests in the definition it needs sprinklers. > > Want a similar snag - Kalwall or the like translucent panels when used as an > entry canopy. It hasn't passed the tests thus it's a combustible roof or > overhang. > > Chris Cahill, PE* > Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group Burns & > McDonnell > 8201 Norman Center Drive > Bloomington, MN 55437 > Phone: 952.656.3652 > Fax: 952.229.2923 > ccah...@burnsmcd.com > www.burnsmcd.com > > Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For > *Registered in: MN > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Chris > Born > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:23 AM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: Question about concealed spaces > > Excellent observation, Mr. Brooks. We'll run down that line of code > research. However, for the sake of the original question, let's pretend that > we're just talking a generic interior finish that is applied after the > building is erected so it is not part of the "building construction." Do any > of the allowances of NFPA 13 section 8.15.1 allow this area to be > unsprinklered? > > What say the Forum? > > Christopher Born, P.E. > Director, Fire Protection Engineering > Clark Nexsen, P.C. > Norfolk, VA > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 6:47 AM, "Bill Brooks" <bill.bro...@brooksfpe.com> wrote: > >> 2009 IBC, 603.1 discusses the use of combustible materials in Type I >> and II construction with Exceptions 1 and 2 dealing with foam >> plastics. Chapter 26 then relates foam installation to roof >> assemblies. Have you reviewed these sections to confirm your case meets one >> of the exceptions? >> >> I'm assuming 2009 IBC applies, and not attempting to get into >> references to NFPA 101 or NFPA 5000. >> >> Bill Brooks >> >> William N. Brooks, P.E. >> Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. >> 372 Wilett Drive >> Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 >> 410-544-3620 >> 410-544-3032 FAX >> 412-400-6528 Cell >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org >> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Chris >> Born >> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:51 PM >> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >> Subject: Question about concealed spaces >> >> NFPA 13:8.15.1.2 (2010 edition) states that "Concealed spaces of >> noncombustible and limited-combustible construction with limited >> access and not permitting occupancy or storage of combustibles shall >> not require sprinkler protection." Consider a masonry building with >> a metal roof deck, but the deck is sprayed with a foam material that >> functions as an air barrier. The spray foam is exposed to view and >> doesn't meet the definition of limited-combustible at NFPA 13:3.3.13 >> because the potential heat value is greater than 3500 Btu/lb. >> >> The construction itself is noncombustible, but the surface exposed to >> view is combustible. I'm pretty comfortable that the intent of NFPA >> 13 is that this space would need to be sprinklered, but would welcome >> either concurrence with that thought or an explanation of where I've gone >> astray. >> The answer to this potentially drives whether or not a fire pump is >> required and obviously has cost implications. Thanks in advance for any >> opinions. >> Sincerely, >> >> Christopher H. Born, P.E. >> Director, Fire Protection Engineering Clark Nexsen, P.C. >> Norfolk, VA >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
