No, sadly it isn't. It's like playing whack a mole.

Ron F

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fairchild, Jack
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement?

Ron,

This doesn't look like your first rodeo on this issue.  From the archives:

>>> "Fletcher, Ron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 02/05/07 12:20 PM >>>
503.1.1 "The fire apparatus access road shall comply with the requirements of 
this section and shall extend to within 150 feet of all portions of the 
facility and..."
 
We have a local AHJ that is requiring a Class I standpipe when all "interior" 
portions of a facility are not within 150 ft.
 
A few questions.
 
Does the access requirement of 150 ft to "all portions of the facility"
refer to exterior or interior?
 
Is anything in writing like an official/unofficial interpretation?
 
What do AHJ's do when the access dimension cannot be accomplished?
 
P.S. Building in question is S1 300 ft. x 1025 ft.
 
Ron Fletcher
Aero Automatic Sprinkler
Phoenix, AZ

Jack Fairchild


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
[email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement?

Yeah they mitigated $20k of tax payer money for a comfortable judgement not 
counting what they spent on the consultant. How can any building of that is 
50,000 sqft. have all interior portions within 150 ft. of where they can park a 
fire truck? It's not an interpretation issue it's a mistake.

Ron Fletcher
Aero Phoenix

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Justin Reid
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fire Marshal requirement?

There is no requirement for standpipes in this case. It just looks like the 
design team came to a conclusion that the standpipes would provide an 
"equivalent" level of protection. I am only guessing.

Keep in mind that the exception in the IFC states that the fire code official 
can extend the 150 ft requirement when the building is sprinklered (exception 
1) or even if basically impractical (exception 2).

The FM in question probably did not feel comfortable making a judgement call on 
this and required the standpipes. That way, they at least did "something" to 
mitigate.

Justin Reid



On 1/30/13, Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] <[email protected]> wrote:
> If that is the case, then ask the ICC for an official code 
> interpretation about placing standpipes on mezzanines in a 1 story building.
>
> Duane Johnson, PE
> Program Manager
> Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services 
> National Institutes of Health
> 301-496-0487
>
> "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time"
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Drucker [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:01 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Fire Marshal requirement?
>
> You mean to say after all the proposals, comments,hearings, adoption 
> comments the rules aren't clear ?  Could that be the issue and not the 
> enforcer ?
> John Drucker - Mobile Email
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [email protected]
> <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wed Jan 30 12:54:05 2013
> Subject: Fire Marshal requirement?
>
> Jim:
>
> thanks for the explanation on job duties.
>
> that kinda explains why some AHJ's won't bend to help "interpret" a 
> grey area, but it does not justify why they wont.  If we all adjust in 
> tiny bits to accomodate the larger goal of improved design, then 
> things tend to move smoother, down the line.  When someone rigidly 
> follows a job title, lock-step, it is explainable, but they don't get 
> a great review from my point of view.  And then there are the few that 
> make interpretations on the far side of conservative, regarding the 
> prescriptions, with no credibility, other than their ability to stall 
> construction.
>
> Its obvious we are all part of a team, but the incentives (in this 
> case, the FM written job description) is not helping, and obviously is 
> hurting.
>  We are not machines.  We are interpreting things as they need 
> interpreting, from time to time, and that is where we need to think of 
> ourselves as part of a design team (AHJ, designer / technician, EOR, 
> owner, and even the users of the building).  Yeah, I know a lot of 
> team members are greedy, egotistical full-tards, which makes it hard to work 
> cooperatively with them.
>  Maybe we should rate all the team members with
>  360 degree reviews...   Something should be done to offer better
> incentives to work together and  de-incentivise (or televise) the bad 
> actions so as to make them better actors.
>
> scot deal
> Excelsior Fire/Risk Engineering
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