We appreciate your effort, Steve - and I know you mean well - but I think we
still want to hear from Ken on this one...
Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection Engineer |
Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 |
http://www.kfiengineers.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: NFPA 13 '10 9.3.6 BL Restraint
Per 2013 NFPA 13, and I'm paraphrasing: By definition, arm-overs are NOT branchlines.
Where piping - ANY piping - above a ceiling serves a sprinkler in the pendent position below
the ceiling, and the pressure at that sprinkler is>100psi, the hanger shall be of a type
that resists vertical movement. Where seismic protection is required and the provisions of
9.3 are to be applied, restraint of branchlines against lateral AND vertical movement. This
applies to branch piping but not arm-overs. The end hanger on an armover may require
vertical restraint subject to the pressure, but not a lateral restraint. Branch restraints
are required at intervals according to tables 9.3.6.4(a) and (b) and may be configured as
one of the five options in 9.3.6.1. If using splay wire or a rod-type hanger on a 45°
angle, the restraint must be within 2' of a hanger that resists vertical movement. If an
"arm-over" serves two or more sprinklers, it's not an arm-over.
My two-and-a-half-cents ...
Steve Leyton
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steven
Scandaliato
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: NFPA 13 '10 9.3.6 BL Restraint
Wagoner....you need to answer this one...
Steven Scandaliato, SET CFPS
520.971.2322 Cell
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 7:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NFPA 13 '10 9.3.6 BL Restraint
Arm over is defined as pipe supplying a single head - if I remember correctly.
Restraint is not required for arm overs. So technically not required.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 20, 2013, at 6:01 PM, "Cahill, Christopher"
<[email protected]>
wrote:
Issue is not about vertical restraint from>100 psi. Well below. This
is
strictly an EQ question.
Chris Cahill, PE*
Senior Fire Protection Engineer
Burns& McDonnell
8201 Norman Center Drive
Bloomington, MN 55437
Phone: 952.656.3652
Fax: 952.229.2923
[email protected]
www.burnsmcd.com
Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For
*Registered in: MN
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Dwight Havens
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NFPA 13 '10 9.3.6 BL Restraint
pendent heads w/> 100 psi
On Sunday, October 20, 2013 6:44 PM, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
Isn't the thrust restraint a requirement for systems with pressures in
excess of 100 psi?
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Greenman [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 09:42 PM
To: [email protected]
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: NFPA 13 '10 9.3.6 BL Restraint
Don't have anything at the moment. Is this eq country? Somewhere
there's
something that requires up thrust restraint at the end of line. I think lateral
is only required for seismic areas, but I'd need to read the section before I
made an unequivocal statement. No books in the car.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 20, 2013, at 2:08 PM, "Cahill, Christopher"
<[email protected]>
wrote:
Got a code section that connects a length of a BL to a restraint or
the
inverse of what you said, that if it needs a hanger then it needs restraint?
I got one that says it doesn't, 9.3.6.7 Drops and armovers shall not require restraint.
3.5.3 Arm-Over. A horizontal pipe that extends from the branch line to a single sprinkler
or a sprinkler above and below a ceiling. I just find it odd I can have a 2" pipe
100' long serving one head and it doesn't need anything but regular old gravity hangers.
Or I can't find anything to challenge 9.3.6.7. My case I have a bunch of 3-8' 1"
legit armovers.
Contractor didn't install restraint and I think he's right technically.
Chris Cahill, PE*
Senior Fire Protection Engineer
Burns& McDonnell
8201 Norman Center Drive
Bloomington, MN 55437
Phone: 952.656.3652
Fax: 952.229.2923
[email protected]
www.burnsmcd.com
Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For
*Registered in: MN
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
rongreenman .
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NFPA 13 '10 9.3.6 BL Restraint
Restraint is to avoid upward thrust and side to side thrust, whipping
for Devo fans, at the end of a branch line. If an armover does not
need a hanger it wouldn't need restraint
On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Cahill, Christopher
<[email protected]>wrote:
Two questions.
Is there a length of an armover that needs restraint? Imagine a 12'
armover that only feeds one head.
Can restraint be connected to something other than structure, like a
concrete floor above?
Chris Cahill, PE*
Senior Fire Protection Engineer
Burns& McDonnell
8201 Norman Center Drive
Bloomington, MN 55437
Phone: 952.656.3652
Fax: 952.229.2923
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
www.burnsmcd.com<http://www.burnsmcd.com/>
Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For
*Registered in: MN
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Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405
[email protected]
http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)
Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC
They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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