My first thought was this is not the sprinkler guys job. But in many cases the AHJ doesn't have a path to easily identify the responsible owner. I'll admit there were times I wrote orders to the sprinkler guy with no expectation they complied. I was expecting them to take it back to the GC who would get it to the correct party. Technically speaking the only responsible party is the owner. None of us want the AHJ's contacting the owners for all these issues so you have to deal with some of this.
Also look at the applicability, it's only used "where the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) determines that adequate and reliable water supply systems for fire-fighting purposes do not otherwise exist." Ask for he report that determined the issues (probably doesn't exist). Ask for the legislation, council adoption, law that identifies what areas it applies (probably doesn't exist). And you can't apply this without a lot of input from the AHJ. " 7.1.1* Any water supply source used to meet the requirements of this standard shall be of a quality approved by the AHJ." This is not a design standard. And finally this has nothing to do with sizing the supply for the fire sprinklers. That is the argument you use to pass the buck. Chris Cahill, PE* Associate Fire Protection Engineer Burns & McDonnell Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com *Registered in: MN Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tim Stone Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 10:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Water Supply Evaluation Craig, In this case I was hired by the Architect to design a Sprinkler system for a brand new Church. The project is in a rural setting so fire pump and tanks are being used. Is it reasonable for the AHJ to expect the NICET certified designer to perform this duty or shouldn't this responsibility fall back onto the Architect who in this case would be the EOR? Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 11:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Water Supply Evaluation Is your project a rural or suburban project? Fire flow requirements should be identified by the EOR with direction from the local or otherwise applicable fire authority. I typically make a call to the local fire authority to find out what method is used to determine fire flow. There are several different methods out there with requirements that vary greatly so guessing isn't a wise move. Once we know their approved method, we apply that info and determine what is required to meet Code. Sometimes that entails a tank and pump, sometimes not. Fire Flow is one thing that gets overlooked a lot in engineering design. We recently had one contractor telling an owner that the requirements for fire flow were ridiculous and he's never had to do that anywhere else. I hope he doesn't do much design beyond 7-11 stores with his level of knowledge of the Codes. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29303 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steele, Andrew Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 10:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Water Supply Evaluation This most likely is from the International Fire Code, Chapter 5, Fire Service Features, (G) Section 507 Fire Protection Water Supplies. Subsection 507.3 says "fire flow requirements for building or portions of building and facilities shall be determined by an approved method". In Ohio, this has been adopted direct into the Ohio Administrative Code. I'm guessing any other jurisdiction using ICC are (or will) be doing the same. Typically the local Fire Marshal will help facilitate the evaluation (to be conducted by a private fire protection/water utility contractor) and will be the one to review/approve it. Andrew Steele Dayton, OH (937) 333-4522 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tim Stone Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 10:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Water Supply Has anyone in other parts of the country run across this? I just received a copy of a state fire marshal's review letter on a new project in which they are asking that the (Water supply for firefighting shall be evaluated and provided in accordance with NFPA 1142). Who is responsible for this evaluation in your area? Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343 <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
