Members, Someone's responsible. Craig I agree with part of your thinking, if the sprinkler contractor was not responsible for the actual electrically supervised side of the equation, then mount the supervisory devices and so note in the final documentation making certain that the lack of electrical supervision is so noted. Some sprinkler contractors go even further and provide a written quote to provide same and document an owners refusal therein making a reasonable attempt to fulfil the code requirements. Keep in mind that code officials are typically immune where there actions are not considered gross negligence, ie he/she made a mistake. This immunity typically doesn't extend to other parties, I,e, the code official said it was ok that's my defense. That doesn't hold up as design professionals and contractors have a duty to comply. For example if the code official said it was ok to use any kind of cement on cpvc would you ?
Food for thought. As always the disclaimer.....the preceding is not a legal opinion, nor the opinion of the borough of red bank but merely an informal observation, always consult qualified legal council. Gross Negligence An indifference to, and a blatant violation of, a legal duty with respect to the rights of others. Gross negligence is a conscious and voluntary disregard of the need to use reasonable care, which is likely to cause foreseeable grave injury or harm to persons, property, or both. It is conduct that is extreme when compared with ordinary Negligence, which is a mere failure to exercise reasonable care. Ordinary negligence and gross negligence differ in degree of inattention, while both differ from willful and wanton conduct, which is conduct that is reasonably considered to cause injury. This distinction is important, since contributory negligence-a lack of care by the plaintiff that combines with the defendant's conduct to cause the plaintiff's injury and completely bar his or her action-is not a defense to willful and wanton conduct but is a defense to gross negligence. In addition, a finding of willful and wanton misconduct usually supports a recovery of Punitive Damages, whereas gross negligence does not. West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved. John Drucker Assistant Construction Official Fire Protection Subcode Official Building/Fire/Electrical Inspector Borough of Red Bank, NJ 90 Monmouth Street Red Bank, New Jersey 07701 Cel/Text: 732-904-6823 Email: [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 9:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: AHJ Powers What provides the electronic supervision, the fire alarm system. Who provides the fire alarm system, the alarm or electrical contractor. So as the fire sprinkler contractor if you provided and installed the supervisory switches why sweat this issue? You provided your scope of work, it's up to another entity to connect and make it compliant. If the AHJ ruled that chains were satisfactory are you as the sprinkler contractor going to petition the State for a ruling over him? Is there a letter of acceptance? If yes, move on unless you want to make this a Judge Judy episode. Either way unless the alarm system is part of the sprinkler contractor scope, this is not a sprinkler contractor issue. Why make it one? Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29303 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 8:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: AHJ Powers The requestor stipulated that the valves are required to be electrically supervised by applicable code, presumably the IBC. Where conflict in code / standard occurs IBC trumps so NFPA-13 irrelevant. Here's the code sections; 2009 IBC 102.4 Referenced Codes and Standards 901.6 Supervisory Service 901.6.1 Automatic Sprinkler Systems 903.4 Sprinkler System Supervision and Alarms 903.4.1 Monitoring If there's a loss these references may well be cited for the various parties to defend their actions with regards to a nationally recognized building code adopted by jurisdiction. Hope that helps, John Drucker Assistant Construction Official Fire Protection Subcode Official Building/Fire/Electrical Inspector Borough of Red Bank, NJ 90 Monmouth Street Red Bank, New Jersey 07701 Cel/Text: 732-904-6823 Email: [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 8:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: AHJ Powers Yeah this is where the NFPA people need to be in-line with the ICC people. But the ICC also makes no exceptions for those installations where there is no alarm system to connect any signals. Keep the documentation of the AHJ approval for posterity. He signed off, he's the final say. Move on to the next great adventure. Round and round the mulberry bush..................................... Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29303 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 8:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: AHJ Powers If the system is a Required system per IBC, then valves controlling water to sprinklers must be electrically supervised. It is an IBC violation, not NFPA if I am assuming correctly. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis Project Manager Rapid Fire Protection Inc. 1805 Samco Road Rapid City, SD 57702 Office-605.348.2342 Cell-605.391.2733 Fax:-605.348.0108 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 6:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: AHJ Powers NFPA 13 gives clear options, chaining and locking is one of them. What's the issue here? There are building installations where there is no requirement for a fire alarm system so there is no provision for supervising valves electronically, in those cases you chain or lock them. 8.16.1.1.2* Supervision. 8.16.1.1.2.1 Valves on connections to water supplies, sectional control and isolation valves, and other valves in supply pipes to sprinklers and other fixed water-based fire suppression systems shall be supervised by one of the following methods: (1) Central station, proprietary, or remote station signaling service (2) Local signaling service that will cause the sounding of an audible signal at a constantly attended point (3) Valves locked in the correct position (4) Valves located within fenced enclosures under the control of the owner, sealed in the open position, and inspected weekly as part of an approved procedure Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29303 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 8:49 PM To: [email protected] Subject: AHJ Powers What say you? An inspector failed to require tamper switches on control valves. The job is complete and there are thousands of pounds of concrete between the control valves and the electrical panel. They placed a chain and lock and the chief declared the chain and lock meet intent...final approved. What say you? 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