Yeah, I can see that... and I'm getting a sense of deja vu once I read about the property managers turning off the AC...
Just to be clear, I wasn't agreeing with the guy, I was just offering my personal opinion. I read the relevant sections of the code in my handbook, and the explanatory text in 2010 explains why its ordinary and intermediate. But I can see where this guy is getting a hangup based on the inclusion of 'intermediate' in 8.3.2.4. His is thinking is so rigid that he's lost the spirit or intent of the code for the verbiage... I can hear him saying 'sure you can use intermediate heads throughout, but you better put them exactly where table 8.3.2.5(c) says you have to! That would make for an interesting system installation! Benjamin Young On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Travis Mack, SET <[email protected]> wrote: > In the SW desert areas, and when the property manager doesn't keep the AC > on in a vacant space, it is possible to get some pretty high temps in > dwelling units. An argument could be made for 175°F minimum in all places. > > Again, the reasoning is simple..8.3.2.1 says you can use either. No > further discussion is needed, but some people require further reasoning. > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > 2508 E Lodgepole Drive > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > 480-505-9271 > fax: 866-430-6107 > email:[email protected] > > http://www.mfpdesign.com > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > > On 11/12/2015 2:53 PM, Ben Young wrote: > >> We used to have a guy in this area who would very specifically call out >> and >> require a specific reason for anything other than an ordinary temperature >> head. >> >> It got me thinking, and now I just use standard everywhere. >> I mean if you really think about it, something would have to be incredibly >> wrong for a dwelling unit laundry room to get over 100° at the ceiling. >> This is abnormal. >> An outside closet with a hot water heater maybe I could see in certain >> areas of the country, but I've been putting 155s in them for a while now. >> >> For non-residential heads, 175s are a PITA to get sometimes as well. They >> never seem to be in stock when you need them. I just go to 200s for those >> and call it a day. >> >> >> Benjamin Young >> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Travis Mack, SET <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I tried. The response is that we are required to use the table, and that >>> governs everything. However, the contractor does not want ordinary temp >>> sprinklers in this area. So, I am having to track down some >>> interpretations and such that prove the point. >>> >>> Gotta love the games we have to play. >>> >>> I will say that this reviewer is normally very good and quite nice to >>> work >>> with. Something must have recently happened to cause him to flag this as >>> an issue. >>> >>> Travis Mack, SET >>> MFP Design, LLC >>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>> 480-505-9271 >>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>> email:[email protected] >>> >>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>> >>> On 11/12/2015 11:07 AM, Ed Kramer wrote: >>> >>> So ask him where in the table (or the text) it say if you're more than >>>> the >>>> minimum distance away for the ordinary temp sprink that you must use an >>>> ordinary temp sprink? He's really reaching. >>>> >>>> Ed Kramer >>>> Lawrence, KS >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>>> [email protected]] >>>> On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 11:39 AM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Intermediate temperature sprinklers >>>> >>>> For example, the plan reviewer is stating that if the sprinkler is >6" >>>> from a furnace or water heater, it MUST be ordinary temp rated. >>>> >>>> I understand the standard to state that you can use intermediate or >>>> ordinary >>>> throughout. Table 8.3.2.5(c) just states that if I am within certain >>>> distances to a heat source, I MUST use the intermediate temp sprinkler. >>>> >>>> The plan reviewer is reading that if I am more than the minimum distance >>>> away, I MUST use ordinary. He is stating that Table 8.3.2.5(c) >>>> over-rides >>>> 8.3.2.1. >>>> >>>> So, who is correct? That is the question that I need to be able to >>>> resolve >>>> with the plan reviewer. >>>> >>>> Travis Mack, SET >>>> MFP Design, LLC >>>> 2508 E Lodgepole Drive >>>> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >>>> 480-505-9271 >>>> fax: 866-430-6107 >>>> email:[email protected] >>>> >>>> http://www.mfpdesign.com >>>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >>>> Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2015 10:29 AM, Ed Kramer wrote: >>>> >>>> Table 8.3.2.5(c) gives the minimum distance from various heat sources >>>>> for both ordinary and intermediate temp sprinks. I don't see anything >>>>> in that table that dictates which sprink temp must be used. Are we >>>>> missing something? >>>>> >>>>> Ed Kramer >>>>> Lawrence, KS >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Sprinklerforum >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>> On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:53 AM >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Intermediate temperature sprinklers >>>>> >>>>> We are designing an apartment complex per NFPA 13 requirements. Is it >>>>> permissible to install intermediate temperature sprinklers throughout >>>>> all spaces (except those that would specifically require a high temp >>>>> sprinkler due to other sections)? >>>>> >>>>> The specific question arises because we have ordinary temperature >>>>> sprinklers throughout most areas, and intermediate temp sprinklers in >>>>> mechanical closets and laundry rooms in the dwelling units. The AHJ >>>>> states that since the areas (mech closets and laundry areas in the >>>>> dwelling units) are conditioned spaces, that we must use ordinary >>>>> >>>>> temperature rated sprinklers. >>>> >>>> He states that Table 8.3.2.5(c) over-rides the flexibility provided by >>>>> 8.3.2.1 which allows ordinary or intermediate temp sprinklers >>>>> throughout buildings. >>>>> >>>>> This has been common practice to install the intermediate temp >>>>> sprinklers in these areas. This is the first time that this plan >>>>> reviewer has ever brought this up. Some contractors in this area are >>>>> moving toward intermediate temp sprinklers throughout in residential >>>>> areas for various reasons. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
