Uhhhhhh … maybe it’s a 4” port?

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Brad Casterline
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Do Hydrant Butts have a K Factor?


Just one more thing if the Forum will suffer me--
A while back I was looking at some flow test data and I thought I had the size 
and type of butt figured out to be 2.5" C=.9.

Static= 112 psi
Residual= 98 psi
Pitot= 40 psi
4320 gpm @ 20 psi

Something was bothering me because if it was a 2.5" C=.9 I get 2912 gpm @ 20 
psi.

I Googled 'California hydrant butts' thinking they might have some weird size 
butts and after I got past a hot chick exercising outside didn't see anything 
unusual.

So it's still a puzzle for me and I don't want to bother the poster of that 
data, hoping someone here has a simple explanation.

Thanks,

Brad
.
On Feb 23, 2017 3:09 PM, "Brad Casterline" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Good advice on using the NFPA formulas Travis, thanks, and when I am 'on the 
clock' I do.
Thanks John. I didn't care during my first twenty years. But I always had an 
uneasy feeling when "everything I know about hydraulics I learned from the 
rules in NFPA 13". Unlike you, I was an English Major when I dropped out of 
college. Now this question is merely an after-hour curiosity, for entertainment 
purposes only if you will.
That FM 2 1/2" K looks like C=.8 Allan, thanks.

Brad
On Feb 22, 2017 11:42 PM, "IPA" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> 
wrote:
I believe I saved this info from this very forum but I have noted that FM 
global used to have k-factors for hydrants. Here are the values:
2 3/8"

134

2 1/2"

149

2 5/8"

164


On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 6:48 PM, John Denhardt 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Travis - well said

Brad - who really cares if hydrants have a K factor?  I know I don't.

John August Denhardt, P.E.
Strickland Fire Protection

On Feb 22, 2017, at 8:45 PM, Travis Mack, SET 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Or just use the formula in NFPA 291- Standard for Hydrant Marking and flow 
tests or something like that...

Q = 29.83*d^2*Cd*P^0.5

d = hydrant outlet diameter in inches

C = the outlet coefficient (0.7, 0.8 or 0.9)

P = Pitot pressure that is measured

Not everything has to be extremely complicated and thought out to the nth 
degree.  If you are really so inclined, why not spend the next few years 
solving for Pi to the 1,000,000th point.  And guess what...... if you assign K 
to be 29.83*d^2*Cd........ you get 168 for your example.  Wow...sometimes the 
simplest methods are the best.

There is a true phenomenon that causes many people problems - paralysis through 
analysis.



Travis Mack, SET

MFP Design, LLC

2508 E Lodgepole Drive

Gilbert, AZ 85298

480-505-9271<tel:(480)%20505-9271>

fax: 866-430-6107<tel:(866)%20430-6107>

email:[email protected]<mailto:email:[email protected]>



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On 2/22/2017 5:58 PM, Brad Casterline wrote:

Say it's a 2.5" C=.9.

I've tried to work this out a couple different ways:
1) a kind of long drawn out way, call it 'brad's way', and I get ~168.
2) a way i call the 'Bill Brooks back of napkin' way based on a few words he 
posted here a few years ago-- lightening fast, and i'll be damned if i dont get 
the same ~168! Basically, since K is the square feet area of the orifice he 
says 5*5*5.6=140, times (.9/.75) = 168.
Anyway, if a hydrant butt has a K we could pretty quickly get the Q after the 
pitot'd P with Q=K*SQRT(P).

thanks,

Brad
.


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