You also need to be very careful to review the wording in -13 [11.3.1.3]
which discharge from residential sprinklers must be the _*GREATER*_ of:
* that required by the minimum flow rates in the listing
* in rooms > 800 ft² deliver a density of 0.1 over the design area per
8.5.2.1
* in rooms < 800 ft² deliver a density of 0.1 over the room or
compartment divided by the number of sprinklers in the room - the
small room rule
That _*GREATER*_ of text has been responsible for a couple of hasty
revisions to plans on my part.
food for thought,
*Ken Wagoner, SET
*Parsley Consulting***
*350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
*Escondido, California 92025
*****Phone 760-745-6181*
Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> ***
On 03/01/2017 9:41 AM, Ed Kramer wrote:
Correct, and that is helpful. A lot depends on the sprink/piping
layout. As others have pointed out, the difference in pipe size
normally isn’t much. Just finished a project where the main down the
corridor had to be 2.5” to make residential sprinks work. Was able to
reduce it to 2” when we switched the design to QR. The primary
reason was back-to-back sidewall sprinks in the demising walls
combined with a marginal water supply – if the water supply had been
better, a 2” main would have worked for the residential sprinks also.
Just another tool to have in the toolbox.
Ed Kramer
Bamford Fire
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
*Travis Mack
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 10:51 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: Dwelling Unit Sprinkler Calc
You can use small room rule and do room area divided by number of
heads to get 0.1 flow. Then compare that to data sheet.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:43 AM, Ed Kramer <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I agree – 4 heads regardless of walls, even if the walls are
rated. It creates a bit of a penalty when using residential
sprinks. I understand the reasoning back when we didn’t provide a
.10 density, but not so much now. Sometimes I’ve found it’s more
economical to switch to QR sprinks and then utilize the room
design method. Just depends on the particulars of your layout.
Ed Kramer
Bamford Fire
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf
Of *Travis Mack
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 01, 2017 10:17 AM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: Dwelling Unit Sprinkler Calc
It is regardless of walls. I pick 4 on one line if they are the
most demanding. If unsure, just throw on a few calc areas and take
the most demanding one. (Another plug for Autosprink - draw the
extra remote areas. Tell it to keep most demanding and you are done).
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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Send large files to MFP Design via:
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Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 1, 2017, at 9:05 AM, Dewayne Martinez
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
NFPA 13 (10) section 11.3.1.1 also includes “adjacent”. What
does this mean actually? 4 heads on the same line regardless
of the walls or 4 heads in the same area but may be supplied
from different lines? The pictures in the appendix are not
very clear.
Thanks,
Dewayne
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On
Behalf Of *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Friday, July 08, 2016 9:13 AM
*To:* sprinklerforum
*Subject:* Re: Dwelling Unit Sprinkler Calc
In response to the original question, is it just me or are we
over-thinking this?
NFPA 13 says that when using residential heads, you calculate
the 4 heads that produce the greatest hydraulic demand. No
mention of units, rated walls, corridors, type of
construction, etc.
I didn't know George Church, but I would have liked him.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Travis Mack" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>,
"sprinklerforum" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent: *Tuesday, July 5, 2016 3:44:35 PM
*Subject: *Re: Dwelling Unit Sprinkler Calc
I'd probably grab the adjacent sprinkler in the adjacent room.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
"Follow" us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to MFP Design via:
https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 5, 2016, at 12:34 PM, Bob <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I have a NFPA 13 building with Dwelling Units. They each
have three Residential Sprinklers. 13 requires a four
head calc. Can I calc the 3 residential sprinklers and
pick up one QR sprinkler in the corridor and still satisfy
the 4 head requirement? Or, should I pick up one
residential sprinkler from an adjacent dwelling room?
Thank you,
Bob Knight, CET III
208-318-3057
<image002.jpg>
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