The sprinklered or "non-combustible per NFPA 13" porte cochere tends to take up a disproportionate amount of time, before building plan submittal, during review, and then construction. The same can be said for sprinklers.
I've walked onto a project that expects a C of O in a few days and found a GC superintendent that had disregarded approved plans "because it's not in the building code". And at that point there isn't an easy way to install a dry system. They more or less start over on the porte cochere. It's Monday afternoon. They've hired staff. They think they're renting rooms at 1300 Saturday. Best Bruce Verhei > On Jun 6, 2017, at 09:59, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote: > > If there are separations that satisfy the building official, different areas > within a single “building” can be protected with the two different standards. > But I can’t use one standard in the dwelling units and one outside of them. > > But universally, I think there’s a pretty wide-span misunderstanding of how > 13R can be applied to a four-story hotel, notwithstanding corporate loss > prevention standards like those of Hilton and Marriott that require more > robust system design. 13R prescribes residential sprinkler design in the > units and design per 13 outside of the units. 13 allows the use of > residential sprinklers in corridors directly serving dwelling units, so we > can say that in the upper floors of a four-story hotel, 13R design will > generally prevail. If you have other uses that are mixed but associated > exclusively with the hotel, you can protect them per 13 and it’s still a “13R > design”. Admin, breakfast seating areas, meeting rooms, restrooms, workout > and spa, housekeeping, etc. are all accessory to the principal use of the > building as a hotel. So you can have a “mix” of 13 and 13R sprinkler > types, areas of coverage and hydraulics, but it’s all still within the scope > of 13R. > > Personally, I would not consider mixing the two books unless the separation > you’re considering is at least two hours and is considered a fire wall per > the IBC (two independent and rated assemblies). And even then I’d need a > compelling reason to mix standards. We had annex language in 13R at one time > that said that when the separation was considered a “building separation” you > could throw both books at it but that was confusing and re-written. But > let’s ask ourselves what it is: is this hotel a single building with retail > stores and their associated fire loads, and/or a commercial kitchen with a > statistically measurable chance of a fire originating there? Are these > spaces separated from the residential ones? And if not, why be interested in > downgrading protection to what is more accurately described as a mixed use > building, not a dedicated hotel, i.e. residential use? > > We’re in the protection business – let’s sell as much of it as we can. > > My 2¢ only … > > SML > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Design Dept > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 8:10 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Hotels > > Travis, > > Didn't they just change the IBC to allow that? > > > Design Mgr > Living Water Fire Protection, LLC > 1160 McKenzie Rd. > Cantonment, FL 32533 > (850) 937-1850 > > > On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Travis Mack <[email protected]> wrote: > You can not have a 13 system with 13R in the units. The system is either > designed per 13 or 13R, not a hybrid. > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > "Follow" us on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > Send large files to MFP Design via: > https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:01 AM, Brian Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > > It’s (4) stories, the notes on the FP drawings call for a 13 system with 13R > coverage in the guest room. > > Brian Harris, CET > BVS Systems Inc. > bvssytemsinc.com > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Trillium Fire Sprinkler Design Inc. > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 10:40 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Hotels > > I do several of these every year. > > How tall are you talking. > > Are they wanting 13 or 13R? > > This determines a few starting factors > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Brian Harris > Sent: June-06-17 10:37 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Hotels > > Been doing this sprinkler stuff for just over 11 years now and finally ran > into my first hotel project. Any tips/pointers from you guys that do a lot of > these ? > > Brian Harris, CET > BVS Systems Inc. > Design Manager > bvssystemsinc.com > Phone: 704.896.9989 > Fax: 704.896.1935 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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