I’d give the original poster *****’s for putting up a practical question of 
interest.

Best.

Bruce Verhei 

> On Dec 3, 2017, at 17:11, [email protected] wrote:
> 
> I have no doubt Roland will shoot this thing in the head by Lunch Time in 
> Kansas, Tomorrow.
> Richard Bradley Casterline.
> 
> Quoting "MFP Design, LLC" <[email protected]>:
> 
>> No, you don’t ignore the obstruction.  I agree with that.  I was just 
>> pointing out that SxL is not always the same for spacing and calculations.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Travis Mack, SET
>> 
>> MFP Design, LLC
>> 
>> 3356 E Vallejo Ct
>> 
>> Gilbert, AZ 85298
>> 
>> 480-505-9271
>> 
>> fax: 866-430-6107
>> 
>> <mailto:email:[email protected]> email:[email protected]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mfpdesign.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=HJ8OA4xyeHAoxXNz5mu%2FYfycgtd5nsFrrpvzulZiNkQ%3D&reserved=0>
>>  http://www.mfpdesign.com
>> 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpages%2FMFP-Design-LLC%2F92218417692&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=H%2BwdcgK8DLGBcNoqJEvUrzsXngySwkX56Vgf9gM9EGk%3D&reserved=0>
>>  https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
>> 
>> Send large files to us via:  
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>> 
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>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftravismack&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=tT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN%2BZodi%2FhbeCbHNRijI%3D&reserved=0>
>>  https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low 
>> price is forgotten.”
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] 
>> On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery
>> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 2:03 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> That is true. (See 23.4.4.6.5) Thanks for pointing that out.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> But that does not mean you can ignore the obstruction when determining the 
>> required discharge, right? That was the premise of the original question.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I’ll amend my previous statement to say the area used for determining 
>> minimum discharge should be APPROXIMATELY 210 square feet, based on the 
>> original question and the precise slope of the ceiling.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Kyle M
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] 
>> On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC
>> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 12:03 PM
>> To: [email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Not necessarily.  Remember the generic phrase: Space on the slope, calc on 
>> the flat.  So, you may be at 130 sq ft on the slope, but if it translates to 
>> 110 sq ft on the flat, then you calc for 110 sq ft.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] 
>> On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery
>> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 10:45 AM
>> To: [email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I disagree, Brad. Whatever distances you use to determine S x L for spacing 
>> the sprinklers, the same distances must be used to determine area of 
>> coverage for hydraulic calculations. (NOTE: There are a few exceptions, such 
>> as when using the 'Small Room Rule').
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I think that NFPA 13 spells it out pretty clearly:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 23.4 Hydraulic Calculation Procedures
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 23.4.4 Calculation Procedure.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 23.4.4.6 Design Densities
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 23.4.4.6.3: The area covered by any sprinkler used in hydraulic design and 
>> calculations shall be the horizontal distances measured between the 
>> sprinklers on the branch line and between the branch lines IN ACCORDANCE 
>> WITH 8.5.2.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 8.5.2 Protection Areas per Sprinkler:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 8.5.2.1: Determination of Protection Area of Coverage.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 8.5.2.1.1 The protection area of coverage per sprinkler shall be determined 
>> as follows:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 1.    …
>> 2.    Between branch lines as follows:
>> 
>> a.    Determine the perpendicular distance to the sprinkler on the adjacent 
>> branch line (or to a wall OR OBSTRUCTION in the case of the last branch 
>> line) on each side of the branch line on which the sprinkler is positioned.
>> b.    Choose the LARGER of either twice the distance to the wall OR 
>> OBSTRUCTION or the distance to the next sprinkler.
>> c.    Define dimension as L.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I think that based on these code sections, the answer to the original 
>> question is that the sprinklers should be calculated as A = S x L = 15’ x (2 
>> x 7’) = 210 square feet. So minimum discharge would be 21 GPM for light 
>> hazard. And if it’s to be considered Ordinary Hazard, the heads should be 
>> spaced at about 9’-3” along the branch lines.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Kyle M
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] 
>> On Behalf Of [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 3:15 PM
>> To: [email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Space the sprinklers like you were plumb-bobbing up.
>> 
>> Calculate the density like you were plumb-bobbing down.
>> 
>> B.
>> 
>> Quoting Michael Hill < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> So you are saying that this is a series of 15 sloped ceilings one
>> 
>>> after the other, not a single obstructed saw tooth ceiling.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> I am not trying to be argumentative. I am trying to convince myself
>> 
>>> that what I am being told to do is correct.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> Mike Hill
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>>> From: Sprinklerforum
>> 
>>> [ <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>> 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
>> 
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:02 PM
>> 
>>> To:  <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>> [email protected]
>> 
>>> Subject: Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> 23.4.4.6 Deisign Densities
>> 
>>> 23.4.4.6.2, and for backup-
>> 
>>> 23.4.4.6.5.
>> 
>>> You don't have walls Michael, you have a sloped ceiling.
>> 
>>> The down-slope 'half' of the pattern is obstructed, be it sawtooth or not 
>>> :).
>> 
>>> Brad.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> Quoting Michael Hill < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>:
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>>> That section explains what to do once the maximum area of protection
>> 
>>>> is determined. I am still not convinced.
>> 
>>>> I agree that plenty of water is going to get to the fire, if needed.
>> 
>>>> More so as this is a UFC project, HC-2 occupancy, dry system,
>> 
>>>> 0.20/3500.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> Suppose there were walls that extended down to the floor at each end
>> 
>>>> of the ceiling that created a compartment (which is how I am viewing
>> 
>>>> this situation). In this case the compartment would be 240' x 8'.
>> 
>>>> 8.5.2 tells me to take the distance from the wall, double it and
>> 
>>>> multiply by the distance between sprinklers in the other direction.
>> 
>>>> No mention of if the area is broken down into smaller compartments.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> Does anyone know of a section in NFPA-13 that allows me to ignore the
>> 
>>>> obstruction when determining area of protection per sprinkler.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> This is how I look at things when I do not agree with them. I figure
>> 
>>>> I am sitting on a witness stand somewhere (after the fire the
>> 
>>>> destroyed the building) and some insurance company's' lawyer is
>> 
>>>> saying "point to where it says you can do that".
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> Mike Hill
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>>>> From: Sprinklerforum
>> 
>>>> [ <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>> 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
>> 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 2:34 PM
>> 
>>>> To:  <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>> [email protected]
>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> I'm with Ron.
>> 
>>>> See NFPA 13-2016
>> 
>>>> 23.4.4.6.2.
>> 
>>>> Brad.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> Quoting Ron Greenman < <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>> [email protected]>:
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> I'll agree the sprinkler knows nothing, but that is irrelevant. We
>> 
>>>>> are working with a mathematical model that will, if all the rules
>> 
>>>>> are followed, give us a reasonable degree of confidence that it will
>> 
>>>>> perform to the design intended, which is, in this case, to keep a
>> 
>>>>> fire contained within the most demanding design area (or any other
>> 
>>>>> similar, but less demanding
>> 
>>>>> area) for a specified duration. So for OH I can space my sprinklers
>> 
>>>>> along the ceiling at a MAXIMUM of 15 ft apart, in any direction
>> 
>>>>> perpendicular to the walls, which is a maximum square footage per
>> 
>>>>> sprinkler of 225 square feet, and a MINIMUM of six feet between them
>> 
>>>>> for a total square footage of 36. So given Mike's layout, he is well
>> 
>>>>> within the parameters of this rule.
>> 
>>>>> Now though we run into another rule which states we cannot EXCEED
>> 
>>>>> 130 square feet of floor area per sprinkler in OH so if we run our
>> 
>>>>> sprinklers at 15' apart on the line we can have a MAXIMUM distance
>> 
>>>>> between lines a fraction over 8.5 feet. Since the sawtooth creates a
>> 
>>>>> "compartment," so to speak, because of the obstructive nature of the
>> 
>>>>> "wall" the "compartment"
>> 
>>>>> distances are 8x15 per sprinkler so he is well within the spacing
>> 
>>>>> rules regarding "throw," and since his horizontal space coverage
>> 
>>>>> area at the floor is less than 130 sqft per sprinkler he is within
>> 
>>>>> the area limitation for OH. His density will be a minimum of 0.15
>> 
>>>>> gallons/min/sqft and presuming he has enough pressure to push that
>> 
>>>>> quantity of water through the system to the 13 (before adjustments
>> 
>>>>> to the design area, if any) design sprinklers the system will
>> 
>>>>> p[erform as desired. Back to the ignorant sprinkler. Will it adjust
>> 
>>>>> to the 1.0'x7.5'x7.0'x7.5' layout and deliver exactly 0.15 gpm to
>> 
>>>>> each square foot per minute? Of course not. What will happen though
>> 
>>>>> is the system will supply enough water to up to 13 sprinklers
>> 
>>>>> anywhere in the system to meet the design parameter (containment of
>> 
>>>>> the fire to no more than 1500sqft). We can feel confident about this
>> 
>>>>> since sprinkler systems have been doing so for over a hundred years
>> 
>>>>> both in pipe schedule and hydraulically designed configurations. In
>> 
>>>>> every system, there is a prize and that is containment or
>> 
>>>>> suppression of a fire. There are several design methods to obtain
>> 
>>>>> the prize and 13 is merely a prescriptive set of rules to get us
>> 
>>>>> there. As long as we follow the rules we'll be alright. If we want
>> 
>>>>> to play mathematician or fluid dynamicist then we'll cease to be
>> 
>>>>> layout technicians and we'll get distracted and our eyes will stray from 
>>>>> the prize.
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Nick Maneen < 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> You are correct.  The sprinkler does not know it needs to throw
>> 
>>>>>> water in mainly one direction.  It will be 15x14
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> *Nick Maneen, SET *
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> *c* 704.791.7789 <(704)%20791-7789>
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> *From:* Sprinklerforum 
>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected].
>> 
>>>>>> org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Hill
>> 
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2017 12:30 PM
>> 
>>>>>> *To:*  <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>> [email protected]
>> 
>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: Saw-Tooth Ceilings
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> Yes, the actual floor area is about 120ft² per sprinkler. Each
>> 
>>>>>> sprinkler has to spray 7’-0” towards the next line. The next
>> 
>>>>>> sprinkler is within 1’-0” of the vertical portion of the ceiling
>> 
>>>>>> (which I am considering an
>> 
>>>>>> obstruction) and will not spray any further in that direction. The
>> 
>>>>>> water will hit the obstruction and fall straight down. I know the
>> 
>>>>>> sprinklers can cover that 7’-0” spray, but I need to make sure it
>> 
>>>>>> does so at the correct density. So for hydraulic purposes is the
>> 
>>>>>> spacing considered 120ft² or is it 210ft².
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> My take is that the sprinkler is 7’-0” form a wall or obstruction,
>> 
>>>>>> as the sprinkler has to spray 7’-0” to cover to the low portion of
>> 
>>>>>> the saw-toothed ceiling. L=14  and S=15. So hydraulically that
>> 
>>>>>> sprinkler has to cover 210ft². I would like to say it is covering
>> 
>>>>>> 120ft² but I need to see where in NFPA-13 that it says I can do so.
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> Mike Hill
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> *From:* Sprinklerforum 
>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected].
>> 
>>>>>> org < <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>> [email protected]>] *On Behalf Of
>> 
>>>>>> *Ron Greenman
>> 
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2017 12:09 PM
>> 
>>>>>> *To:*  <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>> [email protected]
>> 
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> If I'm understanding your description and question properly you are
>> 
>>>>>> covering about 116-117 sqft of floor area if one considers the 1'8"
>> 
>>>>>> rise at the tip of the tooth an obstruction, which I would, and
>> 
>>>>>> your "throw distance" along the slope is at 0-360 degrees=7.5'/90
>> 
>>>>>> degrees=7.0'/180
>> 
>>>>>> degrees=7.5 degrees/270 degrees=1.0'. That puts you within coverage
>> 
>>>>>> rules for OH, and throw range rules for SS sprinklers.
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Michael Hill < 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> I am working on a firing range that is going to have a saw-tooth
>> 
>>>>>> type ceiling installed. I have a question about determining maximum
>> 
>>>>>> protection area per sprinkler.
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> The vertical portion is 1’-8” tall with the distance from the high
>> 
>>>>>> point to the low point being 8’-0”, measured along the slope.
>> 
>>>>>> Sprinklers need to be spaced close to the vertical portion of the
>> 
>>>>>> ceiling, to protect them from stray projectiles. The sprinkler will
>> 
>>>>>> end up being about 7’-0” from the low point of the ceiling,
>> 
>>>>>> measured along the slope. The sprinklers are about 8’-0” apart, but
>> 
>>>>>> with a 1’-8” vertical portion of the ceiling between them.
>> 
>>>>>> Sprinklers are spaced 15’-0” apart along the branchline. See
>> 
>>>>>> attached sketch (if it came through).
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> Would the spacing be 15’ x 8’ or would it be 15’ x 14’?
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> I feel it should be 15’ x 14’ as any individual sprinkler needs to
>> 
>>>>>> cover 7’-0” in one direction, measured along the slope. I feel the
>> 
>>>>>> vertical portion of the ceiling is an obstruction and can almost
>> 
>>>>>> been interpreted as a wall that extends to the floor. I also
>> 
>>>>>> thought I needed to increase my design area for sloped ceiling for
>> 
>>>>>> this situation, but have since been shown the commentary in the
>> 
>>>>>> handbook that explains why it is not required for saw-toothed ceilings.
>> 
>>>>>> Maybe I am wrong about the spacing as well.
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> Mike Hill
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>> [email protected]
>> 
>>>>>> <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Vc6OgMERp1kIlJb_GeTyjDCQ4WHsl43FCxjqiu55wyWfSe7mu895M8mQimA2LKtIAUGGM_pNPMPnkhrJubNqDteP7YKEixzPrM2uf49AheA0iDKvUX1wo573R5P_fxKJjqczX8In-Gbwu320WY7p8w9aV4kOcBZcSoJkPJj3blTJJurZ4zE3gVaj-ulFB5qWoOsrQKN9eSoj1MpfsVRm4LWGvTrZnY6y1E-h38Qtz9P4V1nqOKmVGBeef0GWR3m_gJ7aqD17Qa0ZNEUmz4_jIA/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Vc6OgMERp1kIlJb_GeTyjDCQ4WHsl43FCxjqiu55wyWfSe7mu895M8mQimA2LKtIAUGGM_pNPMPnkhrJubNqDteP7YKEixzPrM2uf49AheA0iDKvUX1wo573R5P_fxKJjqczX8In-Gbwu320WY7p8w9aV4kOcBZcSoJkPJj3blTJJurZ4zE3gVaj-ulFB5qWoOsrQKN9eSoj1MpfsVRm4LWGvTrZnY6y1E-h38Qtz9P4V1nqOKmVGBeef0GWR3m_gJ7aqD17Qa0ZNEUmz4_jIA/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.
>> 
>>>>>> org
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> --
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> Ron Greenman
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 253.576.9700 <(253)%20576-9700>
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man.
>> 
>>>>>> -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and
>> 
>>>>>> opera director (1942-)
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>> [email protected]
>> 
>>>>>> <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Vc6OgMERp1kIlJb_GeTyjDCQ4WHsl43FCxjqiu55wyWfSe7mu895M8mQimA2LKtIAUGGM_pNPMPnkhrJubNqDteP7YKEixzPrM2uf49AheA0iDKvUX1wo573R5P_fxKJjqczX8In-Gbwu320WY7p8w9aV4kOcBZcSoJkPJj3blTJJurZ4zE3gVaj-ulFB5qWoOsrQKN9eSoj1MpfsVRm4LWGvTrZnY6y1E-h38Qtz9P4V1nqOKmVGBeef0GWR3m_gJ7aqD17Qa0ZNEUmz4_jIA/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Vc6OgMERp1kIlJb_GeTyjDCQ4WHsl43FCxjqiu55wyWfSe7mu895M8mQimA2LKtIAUGGM_pNPMPnkhrJubNqDteP7YKEixzPrM2uf49AheA0iDKvUX1wo573R5P_fxKJjqczX8In-Gbwu320WY7p8w9aV4kOcBZcSoJkPJj3blTJJurZ4zE3gVaj-ulFB5qWoOsrQKN9eSoj1MpfsVRm4LWGvTrZnY6y1E-h38Qtz9P4V1nqOKmVGBeef0GWR3m_gJ7aqD17Qa0ZNEUmz4_jIA/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.
>> 
>>>>>> org
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> --
>> 
>>>>> Ron Greenman
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 253.576.9700
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man.
>> 
>>>>> -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera
>> 
>>>>> director (1942-)
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>> [email protected]
>> 
>>>> <http://secure-web.cisco.com/13gNqfBr0Hh-jnLdoQqpN_295RoArY8SthvsGnwP3> 
>>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/13gNqfBr0Hh-jnLdoQqpN_295RoArY8SthvsGnwP3
>> 
>>>> NcCySctz5ZgFNMq9KzjG6OOqc4MPdeQxWtCmYaXo_SM-Uw2bKQ1ZjPIw4yBPPKJPVeY4c
>> 
>>>> _seR6qr-yvX7HOnwtNMfHSY4RFNRYIaqz8AWFlXHEfEaObjqEYBCqDS63wGnoKqYPWwm5
>> 
>>>> dINDACwbg8XJQfloiA73_tKGrvhziamsCLeIExdEP_gKwIF6nVnaKsPhq4aOVtqAnpNDP
>> 
>>>> SFkcoTThQUWj0E8XILgRaKP4giCYqyw/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%
>> 
>>>> 2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkl
>> 
>>>> er.org
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>> [email protected]
>> 
>>>> <http://secure-web.cisco.com/13gNqfBr0Hh-jnLdoQqpN_295RoArY8SthvsGnwP3> 
>>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/13gNqfBr0Hh-jnLdoQqpN_295RoArY8SthvsGnwP3
>> 
>>>> NcCySctz5ZgFNMq9KzjG6OOqc4MPdeQxWtCmYaXo_SM-Uw2bKQ1ZjPIw4yBPPKJPVeY4c
>> 
>>>> _seR6qr-yvX7HOnwtNMfHSY4RFNRYIaqz8AWFlXHEfEaObjqEYBCqDS63wGnoKqYPWwm5
>> 
>>>> dINDACwbg8XJQfloiA73_tKGrvhziamsCLeIExdEP_gKwIF6nVnaKsPhq4aOVtqAnpNDP
>> 
>>>> SFkcoTThQUWj0E8XILgRaKP4giCYqyw/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%
>> 
>>>> 2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkl
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>>>> er.org
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>>> 
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>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wSXTWcUCqMe9WMmhQCcjewIB4zgsTBa2dQhcuKUgp
>> 
>>> xXsi2LiAKBDbukJxANtM76byuYueNXEjEKPpm35XNAetZOWtJyuZ-yoBsy1Oq1-mK54mqk
>> 
>>> updGogQvszCDGkNc_1kC_kbu5qKyZKq3jYE4AJc_YTfA01oZE-jnkywacNi7as6ymjqwXD
>> 
>>> md04MwjJq-gvBYZl1iGn8KjF_HEWccoFiAItw00KgTGrQyGv1D63YjZFRJwLyvIQ-3aMsh
>> 
>>> TYw759ChF0mwAy-aJGljJmQ5Ghg/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flis
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>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wSXTWcUCqMe9WMmhQCcjewIB4zgsTBa2dQhcuKUgp
>> 
>>> xXsi2LiAKBDbukJxANtM76byuYueNXEjEKPpm35XNAetZOWtJyuZ-yoBsy1Oq1-mK54mqk
>> 
>>> updGogQvszCDGkNc_1kC_kbu5qKyZKq3jYE4AJc_YTfA01oZE-jnkywacNi7as6ymjqwXD
>> 
>>> md04MwjJq-gvBYZl1iGn8KjF_HEWccoFiAItw00KgTGrQyGv1D63YjZFRJwLyvIQ-3aMsh
>> 
>>> TYw759ChF0mwAy-aJGljJmQ5Ghg/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flis
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>>  
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wSXTWcUCqMe9WMmhQCcjewIB4zgsTBa2dQhcuKUgpxXsi2LiAKBDbukJxANtM76byuYueNXEjEKPpm35XNAetZOWtJyuZ-yoBsy1Oq1-mK54mqkupdGogQvszCDGkNc_1kC_kbu5qKyZKq3jYE4AJc_YTfA01oZE-jnkywacNi7as6ymjqwXDmd04MwjJq-gvBYZl1iGn8KjF_HEWccoFiAItw00KgTGrQyGv1D63YjZFRJwLyvIQ-3aMshTYw759ChF0mwAy-aJGljJmQ5Ghg/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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