I’d give the original poster *****’s for putting up a practical question of interest.
Best. Bruce Verhei > On Dec 3, 2017, at 17:11, [email protected] wrote: > > I have no doubt Roland will shoot this thing in the head by Lunch Time in > Kansas, Tomorrow. > Richard Bradley Casterline. > > Quoting "MFP Design, LLC" <[email protected]>: > >> No, you don’t ignore the obstruction. I agree with that. I was just >> pointing out that SxL is not always the same for spacing and calculations. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Travis Mack, SET >> >> MFP Design, LLC >> >> 3356 E Vallejo Ct >> >> Gilbert, AZ 85298 >> >> 480-505-9271 >> >> fax: 866-430-6107 >> >> <mailto:email:[email protected]> email:[email protected] >> >> >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mfpdesign.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=HJ8OA4xyeHAoxXNz5mu%2FYfycgtd5nsFrrpvzulZiNkQ%3D&reserved=0> >> http://www.mfpdesign.com >> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpages%2FMFP-Design-LLC%2F92218417692&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=H%2BwdcgK8DLGBcNoqJEvUrzsXngySwkX56Vgf9gM9EGk%3D&reserved=0> >> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 >> >> Send large files to us via: >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hightail.com%2Fu%2FMFPDesign&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=eGdMZGu2wXhUupGwgGTrqF3b54OP5%2BAZvlHhABSexWY%3D&reserved=0> >> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign >> >> LinkedIn: >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ftravismack&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d4df580e77%7C14e5497c16da42e69ffa77d19bafe511%7C0%7C0%7C636379016677342180&sdata=tT5E7LsZjSmyreKi4gDCa70EWN%2BZodi%2FhbeCbHNRijI%3D&reserved=0> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack >> >> >> >> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low >> price is forgotten.” >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery >> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 2:03 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings >> >> >> >> That is true. (See 23.4.4.6.5) Thanks for pointing that out. >> >> >> >> But that does not mean you can ignore the obstruction when determining the >> required discharge, right? That was the premise of the original question. >> >> >> >> I’ll amend my previous statement to say the area used for determining >> minimum discharge should be APPROXIMATELY 210 square feet, based on the >> original question and the precise slope of the ceiling. >> >> >> >> -Kyle M >> >> >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC >> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 12:03 PM >> To: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings >> >> >> >> Not necessarily. Remember the generic phrase: Space on the slope, calc on >> the flat. So, you may be at 130 sq ft on the slope, but if it translates to >> 110 sq ft on the flat, then you calc for 110 sq ft. >> >> >> >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery >> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 10:45 AM >> To: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings >> >> >> >> I disagree, Brad. Whatever distances you use to determine S x L for spacing >> the sprinklers, the same distances must be used to determine area of >> coverage for hydraulic calculations. (NOTE: There are a few exceptions, such >> as when using the 'Small Room Rule'). >> >> >> >> I think that NFPA 13 spells it out pretty clearly: >> >> >> >> 23.4 Hydraulic Calculation Procedures >> >> >> >> 23.4.4 Calculation Procedure. >> >> >> >> 23.4.4.6 Design Densities >> >> >> >> 23.4.4.6.3: The area covered by any sprinkler used in hydraulic design and >> calculations shall be the horizontal distances measured between the >> sprinklers on the branch line and between the branch lines IN ACCORDANCE >> WITH 8.5.2. >> >> >> >> 8.5.2 Protection Areas per Sprinkler: >> >> >> >> 8.5.2.1: Determination of Protection Area of Coverage. >> >> >> >> 8.5.2.1.1 The protection area of coverage per sprinkler shall be determined >> as follows: >> >> >> >> 1. … >> 2. Between branch lines as follows: >> >> a. Determine the perpendicular distance to the sprinkler on the adjacent >> branch line (or to a wall OR OBSTRUCTION in the case of the last branch >> line) on each side of the branch line on which the sprinkler is positioned. >> b. Choose the LARGER of either twice the distance to the wall OR >> OBSTRUCTION or the distance to the next sprinkler. >> c. Define dimension as L. >> >> >> >> I think that based on these code sections, the answer to the original >> question is that the sprinklers should be calculated as A = S x L = 15’ x (2 >> x 7’) = 210 square feet. So minimum discharge would be 21 GPM for light >> hazard. And if it’s to be considered Ordinary Hazard, the heads should be >> spaced at about 9’-3” along the branch lines. >> >> >> >> -Kyle M >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 3:15 PM >> To: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings >> >> >> >> Space the sprinklers like you were plumb-bobbing up. >> >> Calculate the density like you were plumb-bobbing down. >> >> B. >> >> Quoting Michael Hill < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>: >> >> >> >>> So you are saying that this is a series of 15 sloped ceilings one >> >>> after the other, not a single obstructed saw tooth ceiling. >> >>> >> >>> I am not trying to be argumentative. I am trying to convince myself >> >>> that what I am being told to do is correct. >> >>> >> >>> Mike Hill >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Sprinklerforum >> >>> [ <mailto:[email protected]> >>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> >>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:02 PM >> >>> To: <mailto:[email protected]> >>> [email protected] >> >>> Subject: Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings >> >>> >> >>> 23.4.4.6 Deisign Densities >> >>> 23.4.4.6.2, and for backup- >> >>> 23.4.4.6.5. >> >>> You don't have walls Michael, you have a sloped ceiling. >> >>> The down-slope 'half' of the pattern is obstructed, be it sawtooth or not >>> :). >> >>> Brad. >> >>> >> >>> Quoting Michael Hill < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>: >> >>> >> >>>> That section explains what to do once the maximum area of protection >> >>>> is determined. I am still not convinced. >> >>>> I agree that plenty of water is going to get to the fire, if needed. >> >>>> More so as this is a UFC project, HC-2 occupancy, dry system, >> >>>> 0.20/3500. >> >>>> >> >>>> Suppose there were walls that extended down to the floor at each end >> >>>> of the ceiling that created a compartment (which is how I am viewing >> >>>> this situation). In this case the compartment would be 240' x 8'. >> >>>> 8.5.2 tells me to take the distance from the wall, double it and >> >>>> multiply by the distance between sprinklers in the other direction. >> >>>> No mention of if the area is broken down into smaller compartments. >> >>>> >> >>>> Does anyone know of a section in NFPA-13 that allows me to ignore the >> >>>> obstruction when determining area of protection per sprinkler. >> >>>> >> >>>> This is how I look at things when I do not agree with them. I figure >> >>>> I am sitting on a witness stand somewhere (after the fire the >> >>>> destroyed the building) and some insurance company's' lawyer is >> >>>> saying "point to where it says you can do that". >> >>>> >> >>>> Mike Hill >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: Sprinklerforum >> >>>> [ <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 2:34 PM >> >>>> To: <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> Subject: Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings >> >>>> >> >>>> I'm with Ron. >> >>>> See NFPA 13-2016 >> >>>> 23.4.4.6.2. >> >>>> Brad. >> >>>> >> >>>> Quoting Ron Greenman < <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]>: >> >>>> >> >>>>> I'll agree the sprinkler knows nothing, but that is irrelevant. We >> >>>>> are working with a mathematical model that will, if all the rules >> >>>>> are followed, give us a reasonable degree of confidence that it will >> >>>>> perform to the design intended, which is, in this case, to keep a >> >>>>> fire contained within the most demanding design area (or any other >> >>>>> similar, but less demanding >> >>>>> area) for a specified duration. So for OH I can space my sprinklers >> >>>>> along the ceiling at a MAXIMUM of 15 ft apart, in any direction >> >>>>> perpendicular to the walls, which is a maximum square footage per >> >>>>> sprinkler of 225 square feet, and a MINIMUM of six feet between them >> >>>>> for a total square footage of 36. So given Mike's layout, he is well >> >>>>> within the parameters of this rule. >> >>>>> Now though we run into another rule which states we cannot EXCEED >> >>>>> 130 square feet of floor area per sprinkler in OH so if we run our >> >>>>> sprinklers at 15' apart on the line we can have a MAXIMUM distance >> >>>>> between lines a fraction over 8.5 feet. Since the sawtooth creates a >> >>>>> "compartment," so to speak, because of the obstructive nature of the >> >>>>> "wall" the "compartment" >> >>>>> distances are 8x15 per sprinkler so he is well within the spacing >> >>>>> rules regarding "throw," and since his horizontal space coverage >> >>>>> area at the floor is less than 130 sqft per sprinkler he is within >> >>>>> the area limitation for OH. His density will be a minimum of 0.15 >> >>>>> gallons/min/sqft and presuming he has enough pressure to push that >> >>>>> quantity of water through the system to the 13 (before adjustments >> >>>>> to the design area, if any) design sprinklers the system will >> >>>>> p[erform as desired. Back to the ignorant sprinkler. Will it adjust >> >>>>> to the 1.0'x7.5'x7.0'x7.5' layout and deliver exactly 0.15 gpm to >> >>>>> each square foot per minute? Of course not. What will happen though >> >>>>> is the system will supply enough water to up to 13 sprinklers >> >>>>> anywhere in the system to meet the design parameter (containment of >> >>>>> the fire to no more than 1500sqft). We can feel confident about this >> >>>>> since sprinkler systems have been doing so for over a hundred years >> >>>>> both in pipe schedule and hydraulically designed configurations. In >> >>>>> every system, there is a prize and that is containment or >> >>>>> suppression of a fire. There are several design methods to obtain >> >>>>> the prize and 13 is merely a prescriptive set of rules to get us >> >>>>> there. As long as we follow the rules we'll be alright. If we want >> >>>>> to play mathematician or fluid dynamicist then we'll cease to be >> >>>>> layout technicians and we'll get distracted and our eyes will stray from >>>>> the prize. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Nick Maneen < >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> You are correct. The sprinkler does not know it needs to throw >> >>>>>> water in mainly one direction. It will be 15x14 >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *Nick Maneen, SET * >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *c* 704.791.7789 <(704)%20791-7789> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *From:* Sprinklerforum >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]. >> >>>>>> org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Hill >> >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2017 12:30 PM >> >>>>>> *To:* <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>> *Subject:* RE: Saw-Tooth Ceilings >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Yes, the actual floor area is about 120ft² per sprinkler. Each >> >>>>>> sprinkler has to spray 7’-0” towards the next line. The next >> >>>>>> sprinkler is within 1’-0” of the vertical portion of the ceiling >> >>>>>> (which I am considering an >> >>>>>> obstruction) and will not spray any further in that direction. The >> >>>>>> water will hit the obstruction and fall straight down. I know the >> >>>>>> sprinklers can cover that 7’-0” spray, but I need to make sure it >> >>>>>> does so at the correct density. So for hydraulic purposes is the >> >>>>>> spacing considered 120ft² or is it 210ft². >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> My take is that the sprinkler is 7’-0” form a wall or obstruction, >> >>>>>> as the sprinkler has to spray 7’-0” to cover to the low portion of >> >>>>>> the saw-toothed ceiling. L=14 and S=15. So hydraulically that >> >>>>>> sprinkler has to cover 210ft². I would like to say it is covering >> >>>>>> 120ft² but I need to see where in NFPA-13 that it says I can do so. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mike Hill >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *From:* Sprinklerforum >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]. >> >>>>>> org < <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> [email protected]>] *On Behalf Of >> >>>>>> *Ron Greenman >> >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2017 12:09 PM >> >>>>>> *To:* <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Saw-Tooth Ceilings >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> If I'm understanding your description and question properly you are >> >>>>>> covering about 116-117 sqft of floor area if one considers the 1'8" >> >>>>>> rise at the tip of the tooth an obstruction, which I would, and >> >>>>>> your "throw distance" along the slope is at 0-360 degrees=7.5'/90 >> >>>>>> degrees=7.0'/180 >> >>>>>> degrees=7.5 degrees/270 degrees=1.0'. That puts you within coverage >> >>>>>> rules for OH, and throw range rules for SS sprinklers. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Michael Hill < >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I am working on a firing range that is going to have a saw-tooth >> >>>>>> type ceiling installed. I have a question about determining maximum >> >>>>>> protection area per sprinkler. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> The vertical portion is 1’-8” tall with the distance from the high >> >>>>>> point to the low point being 8’-0”, measured along the slope. >> >>>>>> Sprinklers need to be spaced close to the vertical portion of the >> >>>>>> ceiling, to protect them from stray projectiles. The sprinkler will >> >>>>>> end up being about 7’-0” from the low point of the ceiling, >> >>>>>> measured along the slope. The sprinklers are about 8’-0” apart, but >> >>>>>> with a 1’-8” vertical portion of the ceiling between them. >> >>>>>> Sprinklers are spaced 15’-0” apart along the branchline. See >> >>>>>> attached sketch (if it came through). >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Would the spacing be 15’ x 8’ or would it be 15’ x 14’? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I feel it should be 15’ x 14’ as any individual sprinkler needs to >> >>>>>> cover 7’-0” in one direction, measured along the slope. I feel the >> >>>>>> vertical portion of the ceiling is an obstruction and can almost >> >>>>>> been interpreted as a wall that extends to the floor. I also >> >>>>>> thought I needed to increase my design area for sloped ceiling for >> >>>>>> this situation, but have since been shown the commentary in the >> >>>>>> handbook that explains why it is not required for saw-toothed ceilings. >> >>>>>> Maybe I am wrong about the spacing as well. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mike Hill >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>> <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Vc6OgMERp1kIlJb_GeTyjDCQ4WHsl43FCxjqiu55wyWfSe7mu895M8mQimA2LKtIAUGGM_pNPMPnkhrJubNqDteP7YKEixzPrM2uf49AheA0iDKvUX1wo573R5P_fxKJjqczX8In-Gbwu320WY7p8w9aV4kOcBZcSoJkPJj3blTJJurZ4zE3gVaj-ulFB5qWoOsrQKN9eSoj1MpfsVRm4LWGvTrZnY6y1E-h38Qtz9P4V1nqOKmVGBeef0GWR3m_gJ7aqD17Qa0ZNEUmz4_jIA/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Vc6OgMERp1kIlJb_GeTyjDCQ4WHsl43FCxjqiu55wyWfSe7mu895M8mQimA2LKtIAUGGM_pNPMPnkhrJubNqDteP7YKEixzPrM2uf49AheA0iDKvUX1wo573R5P_fxKJjqczX8In-Gbwu320WY7p8w9aV4kOcBZcSoJkPJj3blTJJurZ4zE3gVaj-ulFB5qWoOsrQKN9eSoj1MpfsVRm4LWGvTrZnY6y1E-h38Qtz9P4V1nqOKmVGBeef0GWR3m_gJ7aqD17Qa0ZNEUmz4_jIA/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler. >> >>>>>> org >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Ron Greenman >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> 253.576.9700 <(253)%20576-9700> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. >> >>>>>> -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and >> >>>>>> opera director (1942-) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>> <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Vc6OgMERp1kIlJb_GeTyjDCQ4WHsl43FCxjqiu55wyWfSe7mu895M8mQimA2LKtIAUGGM_pNPMPnkhrJubNqDteP7YKEixzPrM2uf49AheA0iDKvUX1wo573R5P_fxKJjqczX8In-Gbwu320WY7p8w9aV4kOcBZcSoJkPJj3blTJJurZ4zE3gVaj-ulFB5qWoOsrQKN9eSoj1MpfsVRm4LWGvTrZnY6y1E-h38Qtz9P4V1nqOKmVGBeef0GWR3m_gJ7aqD17Qa0ZNEUmz4_jIA/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Vc6OgMERp1kIlJb_GeTyjDCQ4WHsl43FCxjqiu55wyWfSe7mu895M8mQimA2LKtIAUGGM_pNPMPnkhrJubNqDteP7YKEixzPrM2uf49AheA0iDKvUX1wo573R5P_fxKJjqczX8In-Gbwu320WY7p8w9aV4kOcBZcSoJkPJj3blTJJurZ4zE3gVaj-ulFB5qWoOsrQKN9eSoj1MpfsVRm4LWGvTrZnY6y1E-h38Qtz9P4V1nqOKmVGBeef0GWR3m_gJ7aqD17Qa0ZNEUmz4_jIA/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler. >> >>>>>> org >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> Ron Greenman >> >>>>> >> >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >> >>>>> >> >>>>> 253.576.9700 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. >> >>>>> -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera >> >>>>> director (1942-) >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> 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>>>> dINDACwbg8XJQfloiA73_tKGrvhziamsCLeIExdEP_gKwIF6nVnaKsPhq4aOVtqAnpNDP >> >>>> SFkcoTThQUWj0E8XILgRaKP4giCYqyw/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org% >> >>>> 2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> >>>> er.org >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> [email protected] >> >>> <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wSXTWcUCqMe9WMmhQCcjewIB4zgsTBa2dQhcuKUgp> >>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wSXTWcUCqMe9WMmhQCcjewIB4zgsTBa2dQhcuKUgp >> >>> xXsi2LiAKBDbukJxANtM76byuYueNXEjEKPpm35XNAetZOWtJyuZ-yoBsy1Oq1-mK54mqk >> >>> updGogQvszCDGkNc_1kC_kbu5qKyZKq3jYE4AJc_YTfA01oZE-jnkywacNi7as6ymjqwXD >> >>> md04MwjJq-gvBYZl1iGn8KjF_HEWccoFiAItw00KgTGrQyGv1D63YjZFRJwLyvIQ-3aMsh >> >>> TYw759ChF0mwAy-aJGljJmQ5Ghg/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flis >> >>> tinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> [email protected] >> >>> <http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wSXTWcUCqMe9WMmhQCcjewIB4zgsTBa2dQhcuKUgp> >>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wSXTWcUCqMe9WMmhQCcjewIB4zgsTBa2dQhcuKUgp >> >>> xXsi2LiAKBDbukJxANtM76byuYueNXEjEKPpm35XNAetZOWtJyuZ-yoBsy1Oq1-mK54mqk >> >>> updGogQvszCDGkNc_1kC_kbu5qKyZKq3jYE4AJc_YTfA01oZE-jnkywacNi7as6ymjqwXD >> >>> md04MwjJq-gvBYZl1iGn8KjF_HEWccoFiAItw00KgTGrQyGv1D63YjZFRJwLyvIQ-3aMsh >> >>> TYw759ChF0mwAy-aJGljJmQ5Ghg/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flis >> >>> tinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> [email protected] >> >> 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