I have to agree with Steve, and for several other reasons as well. The first is that any good engineer worth his salt would never have allowed a 22,000 SF residence to be protected with an NFPA 13D sprinkler design. Essentially, it's not protected, just has an exit strategy for the occupants. And second, with the high value of the structure and likely contents, a secondary water and power supply should be mandatory. Some years back, one of my best customers ask me to do the fire protection for his new "shack", as he called it. It turned out to be a 28,000 SF 2 story with a subterranean 16 car garage (for his personal car collection). His architect had correctly identified that NFPA 13D was the correct standard to use for a single family residence. I met with the customer and explained the difference in the design intent between the NFPA 13 and NFPA 13D Standards. I also offered a rough estimate of the difference in the installed cost of each design. He chose to have the NFPA 13 design used for his new "Shack". And we did use the swimming pools, (one indoor and one outside) as a secondary onsite stored water supply. The house already had a 25 KW diesel engine generator specified for emergency power. At the end of the day, the Italian Marble floor in his car garage cost more than the fire sprinkler system. He is still my favorite customer.
Mark at Aero 6002 820-7894 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 7:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Residential water storage This just underscores what's fundamentally wrong with deferring the fire protection design until after all the other disciplines have completed their work. It also underscores how little care is given or interest there is in fire protection in the community of building owners and builders, whether they are residential or commercial. I understand that as a consultant and independent design firm, we have a lot more leverage in situations like this but I was a contractor for nearly 15 years and I haven't forgotten which end of the horse eats the apple and which one discharges it. Here's how I'd handle it if my client told me that they were, "... adamant that they don't give up any floor space." "You have to give up the floor space or put it outside or create another structure to house it." See, not so high tech. You're taking ownership of THEIR problem. You're spending your time trying to find a solution after you already gave the client the benefit of your best advice. I would encourage the homeowner to consult their architect and come up with a solution. If the doctor says that you need to wear an odd-looking shoe to relieve your plantar fasciitis, do you say, "No, that won't complement my wardrobe"? Geez ... -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 6:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential water storage Nope. I offered that. They are adamant that they don't give up any floor space. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ John Irwin DynaFire Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Travis Mack Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 9:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Residential water storage Instead of underground tank, can you sell them on a Talco Home Hydrant tank and pump system? They have a small foot print. Put an automatic float valve on it and you have your city supply being used should it be available. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC "Follow" us on Facebook: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_pages_MFP-2DDesign-2DLLC_92218417692&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=dLwiR71i_XhSFqam3ZLeaFLiQJ3cDTUB0ReB4-yDDcg&m=V2nDTruvcPBxkHgHx_eBZrPzVxBHdPKORx-PH5OCeJw&s=j4EI_vaxxTfp5VsyG3QKiOnl9crRbqoJRbIB8wBTCGI&e= Send large files to MFP Design via: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.hightail.com_u_MFPDesign&d=DwIGaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=dLwiR71i_XhSFqam3ZLeaFLiQJ3cDTUB0ReB4-yDDcg&m=V2nDTruvcPBxkHgHx_eBZrPzVxBHdPKORx-PH5OCeJw&s=UN44kL7iooHps5kuP9PgR_Fw2wEIJXm-vckrxYMKKnw&e= Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 19, 2018, at 6:41 AM, John Irwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > I swear after 25 years in sprinklers I am amazed at how often new > situations are still presented to me … > > > > Here’s my situation … 22,000 sqft single family home. The owners lost > water completely in the last hurricane and want to make sure that the > new sprinkler system will continue to have a water supply if this > happens again. So they want to bury a grey water tank in the yard > that’s specifically for fire sprinkler supply. What considerations do > I even start with on this? It’s a 13D system, so do I have to take > NFPA 22 into consideration? How do I get water out of an underground > tank? Standard well pump? Should I not even bother with a city supply > if I am feeding off of a tank? Obviously money doesn’t seem to be a > consideration … > > > > > > > > > > > > John Irwin > > Fire Sprinkler Specialist > > DynaFire, Inc. > > 727-282-9243 – Cell > > > > *“A customer is the most important visitor on our premises. He is not > dependent on us. We are dependent on him. He is not an interruption on > our work. He is the purpose of it. He is not an outsider on our > business. He is a part of it. We are not doing him a favour by serving > him. 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