At the end of the day we always install the hose connections the way the fire departments want them.
Most of the fire code officials I’ve worked with over the years have been fine with exercising their option to allow the hose connections to be installed on the main floor landings. But lately I’ve worked with a few who seem think it is vitally important that the hose connections be installed on the intermediate landings, and I don’t think that’s true. The perceived benefits from our side aren’t completely irrelevant to the serving fire department when you look at the bigger picture. If fire departments are going to enforce policies that increase the cost fire protection systems it should be for things that significantly increase the life safety aspects of the systems. Forcing building owners to install the hose connections on the intermediate landings when it is much more cost effective to install them on the floor landings doesn’t do that. Trever Williams Design Manager Unlimited Sprinkler Fire Protection 130 Kristen Ln. Wylie, TX 75098 214-349-8444 ex. 312 - Phone 214-349-8450 - Fax From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 10:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Hose Connections - Main Stair Landings vs. Intermediate Landings Believe me, firefighters today are trained for just about any eventuality. Think about it: over the course of many years standpipe systems in many cities have been designed and built with connections on both ends of the stairwells. They've been built across at least 2 generations of the standard with different discharge pressures. There are fire departments in older cities that carry 3 sets of tips so they can work with higher to lower pressures as conditions require. The perceived benefits from our side of the counter may be valid but they are irrelevant to the serving fire department. Whatever they want is what should be required Steve Leyton (Sent from my smart phone, so please excuse typos and voice-to-text corruptions.) ________________________________ From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> on behalf of Trever Williams <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:05:07 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hose Connections - Main Stair Landings vs. Intermediate Landings I can see subtle benefits for doing it either way, but the benefits seem so minor that it really shouldn’t matter. It seems like the fire departments should have training and operational tactics for both situations. Different jurisdictions do it different ways and they could find themselves lending support to a jurisdiction that does it the opposite way. Trever Williams Design Manager Unlimited Sprinkler Fire Protection 130 Kristen Ln. Wylie, TX 75098 214-349-8444 ex. 312 - Phone 214-349-8450 - Fax From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 12:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hose Connections - Main Stair Landings vs. Intermediate Landings What Bruce said. Both Code (intermediates) and Standard (floors) state what they state but also contain a provision that essentially says, “Or as required by the fire official…” If you have any doubt, consult with and affirm the locations with the fire official. I personally like the floor landings because it makes the floor control assemblies and drains easier on combined systems and most FDs we work with in the Southwest specify floor landings. But we have more than a few that prefer the intermediates; this goes to department training practices and operational tactics so deference to the FD’s preference is paramount. My 2¢ only, [Steve Signature (3)] From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce Verhei Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Hose Connections - Main Stair Landings vs. Intermediate Landings I’d contact local FD and see their requirements. Floor below was long tradition. Dates back to standpipes being inserted into stairwell. Now you’re normally in a rated shaft. You don’t need a hose line to follow once you’re in the rated stairwell. Best. Bruce Verhei On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:39, Steele, Andrew <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: It sort of matters; think firefighters flaking out no less than 100-feet of hose (maybe more) in the stairwell before charging the hose line with standpipe water. This has to be laid neatly so it does tangle and kink on charging. Typically the FD will hook to the first outlet BELOW the level of the fire, but then lay ½ of the hose up the stair above the fire, then come back down, to make entry on fire floor (laying hose above so it’s easier to pull into the floor as they are crawling along). Hooking below is so if things go really bad, the firefighters can hands on follow the hose out into the stairway and down, hopefully to a safer place. The half-level provides for more hose reach into the actual floor. Andrew Steele From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Trever Williams Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 1:35 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Hose Connections - Main Stair Landings vs. Intermediate Landings From a practical standpoint does it matter if the hose connections in the stairwells are installed on the main floor landings or the intermediate landings? I remember learning years ago that it really doesn’t matter, and in a fully sprinkled building it really, really doesn’t matter, but lately I’ve been encountering AHJs that seem to think it matters. Trever Williams Design Manager Unlimited Sprinkler Fire Protection 130 Kristen Ln. Wylie, TX 75098 214-349-8444 ex. 312 - Phone 214-349-8450 - Fax ________________________________
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