I don't think so, but we are certainly exploring that option. I don't think we've found a design scheme that works with our commodity and storage arrangement that utilizes ESFR heads at the deck. Or, perhaps we can but the hydraulics can't support the ESFRs and in-racks. To be honest, I haven't personally dug into the design details too much yet.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Art Tiroly Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 12:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Converting from ESFR to CMDA - Spacing Issues Can the ESFR's be left in place and just add in rack sprinklers as needed? Art From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Monday, October 08, 2018 7:15 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Converting from ESFR to CMDA - Spacing Issues I think you're right. It just doesn't seem like that should be the case. How can this spacing allowance be appropriate for the notoriously unforgiving ESFR criteria, but somehow not OK for the traditionally much more forgiving standard spray sprinklers. Or that Factory Mutual, who you could say has more "skin in the game" than NFPA, would allow it if it were a poor practice. You know what I'm saying? Do you guys think that this spacing arrangement is intentionally prohibited by NFPA 13, or that it's more of a scenario that just isn't specifically addressed? In other words, does anyone think that a sprinkler system with standard spray heads spaced at 10, 10, 9, 11, 10, 10, 9, 11 (per ESFR requirements) would actually be deficient as a result? I'm thinking about taking this to the AHJ to see if they would allow it, but I don't want to suggest doing it if there is good reason to believe that it is a "bad fire protection practice". I appreciate the input. Kyle Montgomery [cid:[email protected]] Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co. 21605 N. Central Ave. Phoenix, AZ 85024 Direct: 623.580.7820 Cell: 602.763.4736 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 2:03 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Converting from ESFR to CMDA - Spacing Issues FM allows it because all of their sprinklers are "storage" sprinklers. It doesn't matter if it is CMDA, CMSA or ESFR, it is a "storage" sprinkler for FM so the extended requirements are in play. I don't think you will find any forgiveness on this issue in 13. Every time we've dealt with this in the past, we have had to respace sprinklers along the branchline when that happens. 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From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 1:26 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Converting from ESFR to CMDA - Spacing Issues We're looking at a project where a portion of an existing ESFR building is being converted to store cartooned expanded plastics. It looks like we've settled on a design criteria that involves changing out the sprinklers at the deck to 11.2K standard spray sprinklers at a 0.45 density and adding 2 levels of in-rack sprinklers. This issue I need to address is this: Existing ESFR sprinklers took advantage of the spacing allowance to avoid being obstructed by structural members. The lines are 10 ft on-center and the head spacing is 10, 10, 9, 11, 10, 10, 9, 11... The new upright sprinklers are limited to 100 square foot maximum spacing. Is there any good option/allowance where we could just replace the heads and keep the spacing? Or are we going to need to relocate every fourth head to maintain 10-foot spacing all the way down the branch line. I'm pretty sure FM Global allows for this, but I haven't found anything in NFPA 13 outside of the ESFR section. It sure seems like if it's appropriate for ESFR heads (arguably the most finicky with regard to spacing/obstructions) that the same spacing should be OK for standard spray sprinklers. Kyle Montgomery [cid:[email protected]] Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co. 21605 N. 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